Testing for the ultimate adhesive

[SteveS]

OK Report on testbar 3 - The thin glue line test.

To get everything up to date......

This time the bar was ground clean with a 50grit. Then sandblasted with real sand. Wiped off with a paper towel (no solvents).

The attachment method was C-clamping with moderate pressure.

-------------------------------------------------------
After a few days cure:

Impact test (heretoforwards known as "Wack")
Wack
JB Weld - Failed
Wack
Dishwasher
Freeze one hour -
West Systems - Failed
Freeze eight hours
Wack
Wack
Acraglas Gel - Failed
Wack

Still in there:

Loctite Xtreme (some kinda rubberized super glue)
Loctite 406 (commercial super glue)
Loctite E-120HP
Loctite U05-FL
Gorilla Glue

Steve

[SteveS]

To answer the Gorilla glue questions as best I can.

With a good sqeeze the line is pretty much gone. However, is seems you can't use it with all materials. Only stuff that is porous. Then again, it's doing very well with dymond wood. The wood wasn't soaked, but the surface was damp when I applied it.

-----------------------------------------------
Tracy, we have to figure out this Acraglas thing. Mine failed pretty darned early (5 wacks, 1 dishwasher trip, 8 hours in the freezer)

Mine was probably squeezed thinner than yours.

Here's a big question: are you using the regular or gel? Those are two DIFFERENT products. I have the gel.

Steve

[DaveL]

Hats off again to the most awesome site going. This has everyone looking and hoping/wondering of course. Acraglas is so good and yet, it fell to the "wack" and that is not good news to the many users. Okay, hang on Loctite, just one of many in that stable.

Great job and I am going to make the first award recomendation.

[SteveS]

Dave,

Actually I've always used acra glas (Gel - remember I'm testing the gel. It's different than the regular). I was rooting for it. But if you think about what it was designed for, this isn't it. Is was designed for gap filling and impact strength. Yes it sticks to stuff. But that's a little different. So I'm not TOO suprised that it failed when squeezed tight.

Gel - 25 minute working time. Nylon Derivatives. reengineered 1:1 Mix
non-gel - 15 minute work time, 1:4 Mix
Acra-weld - ???? maybe the same as the Gel? I don't know.

People need to specify which one they are talking about. I've always said Acraglas. However, I meant the Gel.

Steve

[DaveL]

Steve, agree with all you said. I have used Acra Weld and it is different than glas. It is a very powerful two part epoxy. But like I said, there will be lots not tested too. This is so good right now and everyone is interested. If you just take the ones that survive,ask questions and wait for the ultimate winner! Dave

[tmickley]

Steve, I am using Acra Glass, not the gel. I tried the gel a couple times and got so mad at having to clean the spoons I threw it away. The Acra glass isn't much better with the proportion by *volume* and not weight. I could live with it easy enough by weight, in fact I'd prefer that but I find the volume deal a PITA if it is not 50-50. That gives it ease of mixing a "C"....

[SteveS]

(It's hard to follow everything so I'll repost this with new results.)

OK Report on testbar 3 - The thin glue line test.

To get everything up to date......

This time the bar was ground clean with a 50grit. Then sandblasted with real sand. Wiped off with a paper towel (no solvents).

The attachment method was C-clamping with moderate pressure.

-------------------------------------------------------
After a few days cure:

Impact test (heretoforwards known as "Wack")
Wack
JB Weld - Failed
Wack
Dishwasher
Freeze one hour -
West Systems - Failed
Freeze eight hours
Wack
Wack
Acraglas Gel - Failed
Wack
Boil in water for 15 minutes
Loctite 406 Super Glue - Failed
Wack
Wack
Wack

Still in there:

Loctite Xtreme (some kinda rubberized super glue)
Loctite E-120HP
Loctite U05-FL
Gorilla Glue

Steve

[SteveS]

I'm finding the same interesting thing as Tracy. This Gorilla glue stuff is alright. The consumer epoxies are all toast. The industrial epoxies are hanging tough.

The only odd ball is that Loctite Xtreme. It's a consumer 'glue'. Single substance. Easy to use. The residual stuff is rubbery. Has not hardened up or discolored after freezing and boiling. And really bonds to metal. It was also the only stuff that bonded over the Simple Green.

Using a 'glue' that doesn't get hard is counter-intuitive. But I can't argue with the results!?

Steve

[SteveS]

I called Loctite and got some info:

Extreme Temperature resistance
Silicon based
working time 5 minutes
indoor/outdoor use
no cracking, peeling, shrinking
Impact resistant
Water resistant

adhears to:

ABS, Glass, ceramic, porcelain, wood, aluminum, stainless steel, fiberglass, granite, vinyl, some rubbers/plastics.

Use for sealing/repairing door frames, windows, vents
Used as a gasket

Not good for marble, linestone, brass, copper, iron, zinc, galvanized metals.

One of the applications is constructing aquariums! That takes some adhesion.

---------------------------------------------------------
I'm not recommending this stuff as I've never used it. But based on my test results I'm seriously considering it!

Steve

[cwp]

Steve,

It would look from Loctite's description that it might be good for Stainless Blades, but the bit about not good for iron would concern me on high carbon. Any thoughts?

--Carl

[SteveS]

Carl,

I was wondering the same thing. Puzzling. Comparing the lists, it looks like it doesn't like things that oxidize. But it seals water tight. So, I'm thinking if the steel is properly prepared you'll be fine. Being a consumer product, maybe they we're just avoiding the whole issue of removing oxidation.

I'll try some on mild steel.

Steve

[TexasJack]

The magic word is 'silicon'. Notice a sharp odor when it's curing? It's acetic acid. Any acid + a metal that corrodes easily = problems.

[cwp]

Steve,
Thanks. It seems to be a good adhesive, but it would be good to know that it is say a great adhesive for stainless, but a poor for high carbon. This is a great thread very worth while.

Where did you pick the loctite up? I've got some hardened high carbon from heat treating tests, maybe I'll try and pick some up and give it a try.

TexasJack, That makes a lot of sense. Still worth trying though.

--Carl

[SteveS]

TexasJack. I love these forums! Great information. Well that does it for me. Now I'm leaning back to using U-05FL.

Carl, If you'd like to try it out, its available at the local hardware store.

Steve

[tmickley]

Steve, if the U-05FL has a short shelf life, that's close to a deal breaker. By short I mean 2 to 3 months. I may go a couple months with out making a knife and then I'll put out a bunch. I don't mind a shelf life of a year and have no problem throwing something like that out and eating the expense but a couple months is too short.

I'm trying to understand if a silicon based sealer that is suggested to have acetic acid like TexasJack says would be a problem on high carbon steel. If it does eventually cause a problem then that is also a problem. It's not a deal breaker if some one is always a stock removal guy and will always work on stainless but I do both and wouldn't want it in my shop.