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  #1  
Old 12-20-2003, 02:18 PM
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YAMAMA YAMAMA is offline
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Exclamation help with building forge.

First off I am building the forge on Bob Warner's site:
http://www.warnerknives.com/propane_forge.htm

It is coming together quite well.

I just have a couple questions.

What type of propane regulator should I use? I have seen low and high pressure ones at the store. My dad has a couple that seem to be adjustable. He also has a used bbq regulator.

Also, I plan on firing it up before final assembly. Are there any characteristics I should look for to know that the burners are working correctly? Can I light the burners without them being in the forge body? What should the flame look like? I imagine it should look similar to my little propane torch I have as the concept seems to be the same. Is there a certain flame color I should look for?

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

Jeird
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  #2  
Old 12-20-2003, 05:05 PM
bulldogsblades bulldogsblades is offline
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The bbq regulator isn?t an option. The regulator I use came from Mr. Ron Duncan and is adjustable from 0 to 60 psi. the burner I have also came from Ron and is a forced air. I built two forges, the first is ok but the second is a jam up and jelly tight unit.

Understand that I am new to gas forges. But with help from Ron this project has worked out well for me. I also recommend that you visit http://elliscustomknifeworks.com/ for your refractory supplies. Darren is a great guy to deal with and I couldn?t find a better price.

Bulldog

Last edited by bulldogsblades; 12-21-2003 at 12:49 PM.
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  #3  
Old 12-21-2003, 01:47 AM
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Well, I loosly assembled the burners and hung them from a dolly to try them out. I am not sure what the flame should look like. Below is two pictures. One with the flame turned up and the other turned down a bit. I ran a straight hose from the propane tank to the burner jets. It did not have a regulator on it. I wonder if I even need a regulator. If I do I would appreciate it if someone could explain why and let me know if I can find the correct type of regulator at the hardware store.

This first pic shows the flame with the gas turned up a bit. The venturi tubes sounded like a jet engine when the gas was turned up. Also I noticed that it appeared as if the flame was burning inside the tube as well as blowing out the end. Should the flame only be outside the tube? Seems a flame like this would be pretty intense inside the 8x8x18 forge body.


This is a pic of the flame with the gas turned down a bit.


Do either of these flames look correct? Should I be shooting for a flame in between these two?

Please let me know what you think.
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  #4  
Old 12-21-2003, 08:46 AM
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Bob Warner Bob Warner is offline
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If the flames are burning inside the tubes, you will know it because it sounds terrible. If this happens you can increase the pressure some to stop it.

If the burner is burning correctly, it will sound like a jet. You can put a piece of metal on a screw over the top so that the metal swivels on the screw and thenyou can turn it to cover some of the top of the burner to sut off air. This way you can ajust the air and gas mixture until you get the well running jet engine sound.

I don't fire my burners outside the forge so I don't know if your flames look right or not. I tried it once and had trouble getting them to sound right but when I put them into the forge, it becaue obvious they were working correctly. The forge creates a little back pressure.

You DO NEED a regulator. Without a regulator you will have to constantly ajust your gas line. If your tank is full, you will have to have the gas turned down but as it empties, you will have to turn it up to get the same performance. You want constant and consistent gasflow. I paid $15 for my high pressure regulator and another $4 or $5 for a gauge. Well worth the money. There is also a safety factor involved as well.


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Old 12-21-2003, 09:11 AM
Terry_Dodson Terry_Dodson is offline
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flare

i think you need some type of flare to run them outside of the forge, i used a 3/4 to 1 " adapter and it seemed to do ok for the one i did just to see how it burned. you can find out a lot here:
http://www.reil1.net/design1.shtml
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Old 12-21-2003, 10:49 AM
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spend some time at reils web site,there are pictures showing the correct flame for normalizing and reducing flames and i would definately get a adjustable regulator and guage.good luck
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Old 12-21-2003, 11:12 AM
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Yea.. I just started looking at his site. There is a lot of information there but it seems hard to follow for me. The images were good and give me an idea of what to look for.

I'll have to get a coupling to screw on the end of my burner tube to tune it outside the forge.

More recommendations would be VERY welcomed as this is all very new to me. :confused:

thanks,
jerid
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Old 12-21-2003, 06:42 PM
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I put couplings on the ends of the tubes. I also started playing around with choke plates which seem to have helped.

So... If I have to reduce the air what does that say about my fuel jet?

I will get a couple more pics when the sun goes down a bit. It is really hard to see the flame right now.
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  #9  
Old 12-21-2003, 08:25 PM
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Here are some pics of the flame after adding the couplings and jerry riged choke plates. Also installed a high pressure adjustable regulator which I think i have turned all the way down.

Please let me know if this look right.

Low light:


At night:


Last edited by YAMAMA; 12-21-2003 at 08:28 PM.
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  #10  
Old 12-21-2003, 08:46 PM
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I don't know what the couplings would really do for the burner other than extend the tube and allow a pressure drop at the transistion. I want the pressure drop to happen at the end of the tube. Mine have run perfectly for several years without couplings.

If it were me, I'd stop "Tuning" the burner in an environment that you do not plan to use it (outside the forge). You could have a perfect flame but all bets are off when you put that burner into the forge. Different environment, different results.

I would put it on the forge and fire it up to see how it will work in the place I want it to perform, then adjust if necessary by changing the jet size and the gas pressure until it works like you want.

I try not to analyze everything to death. My forge will weld for me every day and it is built exactly as the tutorial shows. It works, thats good enough for me. Some want flares and nails welded across the burner and all this other stuff and that is good for them but if you plan to use Ruperts design, I would not change it and expect to get the same results.


Just me.


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Old 12-21-2003, 09:13 PM
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I hear ya Bob. I think the couplings help the burner run outside the forge. I plan to remove them once the forge body is assembled.

I guess the reason it seems that I am over analyzing it is because I keep reading conflicting information. I guess that is where good ol' trial and error comes into play and like you said (in not so few words)... Just give it a try and adjust from there. Also, this design is working for you and others therefore it should work for me.

If you think I overanalyze this wait until I start forging
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  #12  
Old 12-21-2003, 09:32 PM
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One of the things I look at is the benefits gained by the things we do.

For example: You will see where people say one steel is better than another and everyone seems to want to get the latest high tech steel. I sit back and wonder what they are really getting. I use a lot of 1084 and 1095. These are simple high carbon steels and they have been used for knives for a really long time. Those knives function just fine. Then someone comes up with a better steel and it costs about three times the money. But what is better? If I can cut a rope 300 times with 1084, why would I want to spend three times the cash just to be able to cut the same rope 302 times?

Sometimes people take things a little too far for my liking. The burner works fine as designed and if you just stick it into a box and light it, you will have a good forge.


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Old 12-21-2003, 10:59 PM
Howard Rich Howard Rich is offline
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Yamama, Isn't those pipes galvanized? If so, do you think in the high heat of the forge all that lead will melt ,(lead flows at 550degrees) and leave a lot of nasty soot to mess up your blades?
Howard
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  #14  
Old 12-21-2003, 11:11 PM
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If your burners are operating properly, they will not get hot. I can grab the burner pipe in the middle with bare hands without getting burned. If the fire is burning at the end of the pipe as it should, there is no problem.

I did not notice the burners were galvanized but have had burners made of it before without a problem. Would not hurt to replace the pipes themselves if wanted but I personally would not bother. My forge is outside under a porch roof so I have a lot of ventilation.


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  #15  
Old 12-21-2003, 11:23 PM
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I agree Galvanized pipe is not the best for this but it is all I could find in this size. I had planned to exchange them when I find a suitable replacement.

From what I understand, Galvanized steel is steel that has been coated with Zinc. Burning the zinc can cause it to vaporize into zinc oxide which has been known to make some people sick with flu like symptoms if enough is inhaled. Usually experienced by welders who weld galv pipe.

I plan to do the forging outside so I do not anticipate a problem.
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