stub tang construction

[SVanderkolff]

I am in the process of building a damascus bowie. I have an S guard made and a stabilized wood ferrule and am now looking to complete the actual handle. I have a chunk of ivory 1" wide 1 1/2" deep and 4 inches long that I plan on using for the handle. My problem is that after the ferrule thereis only about 1 1/2" of tang left (3/16" X 1 1/2" X 1"). If I make a slot in the ivory to insert the tang I do not think it will be strong enough nor will it give me the tight fit that I want. I do not want to run a threaded rod through and out the end as that will not look right. If you could please give me some suggestions on slotting the ivory, getting a tight fit and ending up with a strong handle that would be a great help.
Thanks
Steve

[Ray Rogers]

From your dimensions it looks like your stub is 1" high. That's pretty tall. mine are usually less than half an inch. But, if that fits inside your handle it's not a problem.

My stubs are usually 2" long so yours should be OK at 1.5".

The handle can be made plenty strong if it's done right but ivory is ivory, i.e, not the strongest material in the world - a natural and unpredictable material so you pays your money and you takes your chances.

The only way for it to be really strong is that it must be pinned. The hole should be a good fit for the tang, filled with very strong epoxy. The real secret is getting a fit on the pin that causes it to pull the handle up tight against the guard or ferrule.

The way I do this:

1. drill 3/16th holes in your ivory with a depth a little more than required for the length of the tang.
2. use a Dremel fitted with a Roto-Zip bit to open up the holes, making a deep, flat hole for the tang.
3. use at least one thin (.030) fiber spacer in front of the handle and make everything fit up nicely
4. remove the fiber spacer and drill through the side of the handle, through the tang, and out the other side of the handle with a slightly oversized drill. This can be done in steps with different bits if the tang is hard
5. At this point the pin should EASILY pass through the handle and tang
6. Put the fiber spacer back in and look through the hole. Now the tang is out of line with the handle. Inserting the pin will force the handle foreward drawing it up tightly. At this point it would probably take a great deal of force to get the pin to pass through the handle and would surely split the ivory. Your goal is to Dremel the back side of the hole in the tang until the pin will pass through the tang and handle with just a firm tapping froma mallet while the knife is held in your hand (not a vise and not on the table).
7. the pin can then be tapped back out, the handle filled with epoxy, and reassembled

If you cut the tang a little too much, add an additional spacer and start again.

I have torture tested many handles made this way and they are absolutely solid......

[McAhron]

if you feel your tangs to short you could weld or braze a short peice of steel to it

[cactusforge]

There is another way to do this. Go and get a furniture clamp the kind that slides on a bar, mine are 2 ft. long. Thy have a swivel on one end, I have removed it on mine and sharpened the ball to a point so it will catch on antler crown sticks. For use on Ivory you may not want to do this, if the end of the Ivory flat you won't need the sharp point. Grind some ridges in the tang so the epoxy can get a grip, fill the slot with epoxy and install on the tang. The butt end on the swivel and the point on the flat end, just snug it up you don't need a lot of presser. This will NOT come apart if you use a good epoxy. I have used this method for years with no problems. And from your description you should extend the tang some.
Gib

[Jason Cutter]

I always allow at least 3.5inches for a hidden tang. The thicker and heftier the better. This came out of making knives for military folk. One guy ran over his / my knife with his truck and destroyed the wood handle but the guard stayed on and he carried it around in the sheath for 4months till he got back because he was able to hold onto the tang which was 4.25inches long and no less than 1/2inch wide at the narrowest point.

Its different for a presentation grade piece. 1.5-2inches will stick on well as long as the person doesn't decide to whack something with it. Any torque on the blade and the handle will rip out. Many people (including myself) believe that a presentation knife should work the same / be built the same as a work-grade knife, just be prettier ...

I'd go with brazing on at least another 2inches of steel rod or threaded bolt. Or is there any way to forge out / draw out the tang. 1inch tall stub sounds like a lot of steel. Jason.

[Darren Ellis]

Originally posted by cactusforge
There is another way to do this. Go and get a furniture clamp the kind that slides on a bar, mine are 2 ft. long. Thy have a swivel on one end, I have removed it on mine and sharpened the ball to a point so it will catch on antler crown sticks. Gib

Hi Gib,

Do you have a picture you can post of your furniture clamp set-up? I have no idea what you're talking about (furniture clamp), I just can't picture it...I guess I'm not sure what a furniture clamp is. This sounds like it might be a nice jig to use...if I had any idea what it was!

-Darren

[cactusforge]

I will get a photo when it is daylightand post it. Gib

[cactusforge]

Darren here is a pic of the clamp use to install a handle on a stick tang knife. I only use enough pressure to hold the handle on and stand the clamp and knife so the knife is virtical. Gib

[Darren Ellis]

Oooohhh, so that's what you meant by a furniture clamp! I see now! Thanks for posting that pic, that totally clears everything up.

-Darren

[Andrew Garrett]

I had a nice conversation with Delbert this morning and came back to more great answers here (very clever Ray!).

As I start to mix hidden tangs into my designs, I'll try each of these methods. I'm glad to know I was only making it complicated in my mind.

Thanks to all!

[Brett Holmes]

i think you posted in the wrong thread andrew
brett

[flashinthepan]

Thom up here - I love Ray's deal with the spacer material..
Sometimes a stubby tang can have an extra piece silver soldered to the back to extend it.
I fixed my neighbor's knife a different way...
He brought over the blade with tang and asked me to put a handle on it..
It was one of those daggers that had the deer foot for a handle; but the
handle had fallen off..
I made a coffin handle out of curly maple;
Drilled the front for the tang;
put it in my vise with the tang hole pointing up; put little pieces of cutlers resin in the hole till it filled up..
Then I heated the tang up and pressed it into the hole till it was seated.. hot resin oozed out all over..Let it cool and picked it off..
Drilled thru handle and tang; took my pin; bent it slightly; then pressed it in.Peened it lightly .
I think this would work good with deer antler - I gotta try it..

Hey it ain't a book - but it's a booklet

[SPryor]

Originally Posted by McAhron

if you feel your tangs to short you could weld or braze a short peice of steel to it

I've done this a few times with excellent results, and it's a lotttt easier than trying to line up pin-holes.

[Gary Mulkey]

Steve,

The idea of the furniture clamps will certainly work. Another tool that I find hard to do without that will also do the job is some vicegrip pliers with an adjustable jaw. They have one jaw with a bar extending out and a second jaw that slides out the bar to be tightened at any length giving you the best of both worlds. I believe that ENCO sells these called "ViseGrip locking bar clamp". They can be adjusted out to 10" which will take care of most knife making jobs and works very well. It also allows you fine adjustment by tightening the adjustment screw on the end of the handle which is an advantage over a simple clamp.

Gary