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The Newbies Arena Are you new to knife making? Here is all the help you will need.

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  #1  
Old 11-16-2014, 05:13 PM
extremeedge extremeedge is offline
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need some input

hey guys hope all of you are well
so my knife making project has run into a little snag! I cant seem to drill through this 1095hr
I have tried using a few bits at the speeds they recommended cobalt steel titanium and a bunch of run of the mill bits I had laying around
I did have a little success using a carbide center drill but they are to small at the tip to go straight trough my next step is to go with a full carbide bit
the steel is from admiral steel I know now not to buy from them rookie mistake I know i will be using the baron from now on for my steel
hope that's enough info for someone to help thanks in advance guys
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  #2  
Old 11-16-2014, 05:37 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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No reason you should be having that trouble with Admiral steel unless you already hardened it or somehow managed to work harden it. If the steel is still in its annealed state then a good cobalt drill should do it. BTW, forget about all those speed/feed tables - for the most part that information is not really helpful to a newbie. Just set your drill press for its slowest speed, around 250 rpms, and you'll be fine. Mine stays there, been there for 20 years, never changes no matter what I drill, works great.

If the steel is hard - for whatever reason - and softening it is out of the question then the correct solution is a straight flute carbide drill. These are not concrete drills, they are not spade drills, these are made specifically to solve the problem you are currently having. They will drill though thicker steel than other carbide drills and they make perfectly smooth and correctly sized holes which the others generally don't do. The bad news is they aren't particularly cheap and you won't find them at your local hardware store. If you have an industrial tool supplier in your area they would have these drills. I order them from MSC (mscdirect.com), they have the best prices on these pricey drills and incredibly fast delivery. Its a good idea to keep a few of these around, you never know when the need will arise ...


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  #3  
Old 11-16-2014, 07:12 PM
jmccustomknives jmccustomknives is offline
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I use admirals 1095, and it is typically a little hard to drill through. If you can't anneal it a little cheat is to get a concrete drill bit. It's ugly when it gets through, but it gets through. You can also pay out for some carbide bits, they aren't cheap.
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  #4  
Old 11-16-2014, 07:41 PM
extremeedge extremeedge is offline
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ray
I thought that cobolt was hss I have my drill set to the fastest speed so ill slow it down and give the bit a new edge give it a shot after walking dead as always thank you for your help
I was able to put some pics of the knives in an album on my profile page if your interested in seeing
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  #5  
Old 11-16-2014, 09:30 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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Cobalt is HSS with cobalt added, makes them wear longer but not much better for cutting hardened steel. For hardened steel, nothing beats those straight flute carbide drills ...


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  #6  
Old 11-16-2014, 10:21 PM
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MVPeterson MVPeterson is offline
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Also helps to use cutting oil.
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  #7  
Old 11-16-2014, 11:19 PM
extremeedge extremeedge is offline
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ray thanks im going to look one up because like you predicted it dose not work. Now since you seem to know a good deal about knife making is 80crv2 tougher to work with then this 1095hr ?
MVP I use water to cool the drill think cutting oil would be better ?
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  #8  
Old 11-17-2014, 09:13 AM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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Depends on what you mean by 'harder to work with'. If you simply mean harder to drill, the answer there is that any properly annealed steel should be easy to drill if you use a good sharp drill. Your 1095 is obviously not fully annealed which, as Mark pointed out, is sometimes the case with 1095. Another reason we always suggest 1084 for new makers.

But, if you meant harder to heat treat then yes the 80crv2 would be more difficult if you do it correctly. You could just throw it in the forge and treat like a simple steel but you won't get its full potential that way. 80crv2 is a fairly alloyed steel and that generally means you will need very precise temperature control to reach the steel's full potential and that requires an electric furnace. So, I would say use the 80crv2 if that's what you have but if you're looking to buy steel then I'd look at 1080 or 1084 first and save a little money (probably).

I've use cutting oil and it does help but its also messy. Running the drill slow as I described helps quite a bit and using a sharp drill helps even more, so I don't use cutting oil or water when drilling. Water just turns to steam and I'm not sure its doing much to lubricate anyway. The real reason that you see lubricants recommended is the same reason you see speed/feed charts recommended : to make the drill last just a little bit longer. Why? Because those recommendations are for manufacturing environments where replacing a drill bit an hour later can translate into considerable savings over a few days of constant drilling. We don't use our drills like that. We don't use drills by the hundreds in a month. Frankly, for our use, its just simpler to buy a half dozen drills, use them dry at slow speed, and replace as they get dull. Buy cobalt drills and drill properly annealed steel and you won't need to replace the drill very often....


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Last edited by Ray Rogers; 11-17-2014 at 09:16 AM.
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  #9  
Old 11-17-2014, 03:10 PM
extremeedge extremeedge is offline
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no no im using a professional shop to treat my steel for me they told me I could do 25 blades 7 1/2 to 12 inches long for $135.00
I am meaning to ask if its a harder steel thank 1095 before its heat treated?
what is your opinion of the 80crv2 ?
and why do you recommend the 1084 to newbies ?
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  #10  
Old 11-17-2014, 04:06 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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80crv2 isn't any harder than 1095 if both steels are FULLY annealed. Your 1095 either isn't fully annealed - and that is a problem with some supplies of 1095 - or it got partially hardened somehow.

My opinion of 80crv2 has pretty much been stated in my last post. Basically, it seems very similar to 1084 but with more alloying elements. These elements should make a properly heat treated blade made from 80crv2 out perform a properly heat treated blade made from 1084 by some degree. The problem is that because of those extra alloying elements you can't heat treat 80crv2 in a forge to take advantage of those elements. So, treating 80crv2 will be hit or miss: it might come out a bit better than 1084 or it very well might not. And THAT is precisely the reason why we generally recommend 1084 to new makers. It costs less than alloyed steels and it can be reliably treated in a forge.

Since you're sending your blades out the forge question is moot and, all other things being equal, the 80crv2 should have some advantage. If, that is, the shop you're sending your blades to uses an electric furnace to treat your blades...


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  #11  
Old 11-18-2014, 07:43 AM
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One thing that Ray has stated several times and is often overlooked by most - SHARP drill bits. Least bit of dull on not totally annealed steel usually just makes the bit duller real fast. If it squeaks, squeels or chatters, stop. You will only work harden the steel being drilled and ruin a salvageable drill bit beyond use.
I learned to check and presharpen my bits by hand before I start to drill. I also spot punch prior to drilling.
Not hard to do with a bit of practice and will save you tons of grief in the long run.

Never can figure out why a novice wants to take a difficult skill learning curve project like a knife and complicate the difficulties by adding complex steels. If you want to teach your kid to learn to catch and play ball, you don't start with a bowling ball.......just saying.
There are very good reasons for starting off with 1084. Why does everyone think it's a "beginner" steel, can't figure that out either. It's an excellent blade steel if worked correctly.
Too much "high horse" thinking without realistic assessment of known skills. Most of the time beginners never get past the beginning stage because they "made" it too hard to learn from the get-go. If it is all that easy then everyone would be carrying their own custom handmade knife.


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  #12  
Old 11-22-2014, 10:53 PM
extremeedge extremeedge is offline
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Ray
you are the man thank you I ordered the straight flute drill and it worked amazingly

now I only have one more question for you if you don't mind
on my 1095 blades I was wondering what a good hrc is for it ?
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  #13  
Old 11-23-2014, 08:51 AM
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1095 can get very hard but it can also be brittle at very high hardness so the exact HRC you choose should be based on the geometry of the knife and its intended use. As a rule of thumb I'd say 58 or 59 for most 1095 blades. If you use differential hardening then you can go higher on the edge part but you still risk chipping....


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