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The Newbies Arena Are you new to knife making? Here is all the help you will need.

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  #1  
Old 10-22-2016, 09:26 AM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
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damascus ethc

hey guys so ya know that piece of Damascus I was talking about so I HTed it and was playing around with the etch, I figure its easier to figure out exactly how I want to etch it now when its flat I can grind it off easier than with bevels, so I know I touched on this with some of you a while back but my memory aint that good and I searched though old threads but couldn't find it. we talked in general but I don't think we got into details of this anyway. so I am trying to figure out how to change the etch. this one has been coming up almost like a hologram ya know like you can see it a lot better in the right light, in the past I also had it come out very bold black and silver no matter what angle, I have also seen pics of knives with different etches like this but I cant figure out what changes it, I have tried different lengths of time in the acid, different dilutions, hitting it with a high grit sand paper afterward, even diferent acids mainly ferric and muriatic, any sugestions on how to change the etch as I described???
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Old 10-22-2016, 01:33 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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What effect are you trying to get? If you mean the black and silver look that comes from using a hi moly steel like 1084 with 15N20, getting it properly HTed (poor HT will not etch well), and then etching. I etch with FeCl mixed 3 parts distilled water to 1 part FeCl. About 15 to 30 seconds will usually get the job done...


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  #3  
Old 10-22-2016, 06:46 PM
jmccustomknives jmccustomknives is offline
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There's another factor, I don't think it's the problem but I'll throw it out there. If the steel isn't properly hardened the etch will be muddy. Temperature has a big effect also. A hot etchant will work stronger than when it's cool so you might have to do more and longer etching cycles to get the same effect. I've been known to warm my etchant up in the winter.
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Old 10-23-2016, 09:36 AM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
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thanks guys... i didn't know the HT plays a big part in it. wich i read my last post and i didn't word it right the whole HT wasn't done just the normalizing i didn't have time to finish as i was on the way out to a military gun and knife show wich was really good gave me lots of ideas for knives and i got a old flint lock pistol very very cool never had one of these. anyway today i will harden the steel and re try the etch and see what happens and ray yeh I want the real black and silver look i will have to try shorter etch all the ones i have done have been much longer and they come out very black then when i hit it with high grit paper lightly is gets more of a "hologram" look not very bold but i will harden today and try again see if it come out different JM what you mean by muddy maybe what i am saying about how its real dark when it first comes out? either way i bet the HT is the reason why it is coming out like this so ill get that done i had no clue the HT effected this. On another note being that this is both 1084 and 15n20 i would HT it like regular 1084. i have it written down but if i remember right 1475 deg quench? is it better to use canola oil with this than the parks 50 that i have been using for stainless.? and do i remember right that liquid nitrogen has no proven positive effect on the 1084 but may be done as it wont hurt and MAYBE might help slightly? i don't know if any of that is different since this has 15n20 mixed in
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Old 10-23-2016, 10:10 AM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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Treat the damascus just like 1084, use the Parks 50. I like to cryo everything. It seems to add a little toughness but no matter if it does or not, it can't hurt ...


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  #6  
Old 10-25-2016, 11:14 AM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
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ok guys so I went through the whole HT with this Damascus piece. I did test it on my hardness tester. tested it 4 times one was off so averaged the other 3 and it was at a 59.8. I know that's on the high end for 1084 but I am not to worried about it for this knife because it is for my nephew who is autistic and he just wanted a Damascus piece when he saw that real old one I did ANYWAY he just wants some thing to hang on his wall I am not sure if I am going to even sharpen it my sis (his mom says no) but his father says yes so there will be discussion on that. so anyway with the hardness test I am assuming the HT is good as far as what you guys were telling me the HT has to be good for a good patteren. so I tried twice to see how the pattern will come out and it bassicly came out of the acid BLACK then I hit it lightly with high sand paper and the black came off but you could barely see the pattern...oh that was at 15 seconds too. so then I tried 10 seconds and basicly the same thing happened. the only thing I can think of is the acid is stronger than it should be I thought it was 3-1 because this bottle has been sitting on the shelf since last time and ray I remember you told me 3-1 so I think that's what this is but its been a while I could be wrong and have the bottles mixed up. if it was to strong would that be the result where the whole thing comes out black but everything including 95% of the pattern sands right off? mmaybe I should go get another bottle and mix it again? but I would figure if it was to strong yeh maybe it would come out black but I would think the pattern would still be there after a couple swipes with sand paper?? can this stuff go bad??
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Old 10-25-2016, 11:36 AM
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First off, the etching eats away a tiny bit of metal and deposits some oxide. This oxide is very similar to what you get when you etch your maker's mark on a blade. Do you sand your mark after you etch the blade? I don't. Why would I sand off what I just put on there?

ALL polishing, sanding, and any other type of metal finishing is done prior to the etching. A bit of fine sanding or light polishing will make the 15N20 somewhat shiny and that's what you want. THEN etch and the whole blade will likely be pretty much black UNTIL you take the blade to the sink and run cold water over it and rub lightly with your fingers to remove the loose oxides. That should reveal your pattern. The 15N20 will still have some shine if you didn't etch for too long and the 1084 will still be dark grey or black. If you need to etch again then do so. After all the etching is done dry the blade and let it sit for an hour or so. If you think you need to buff the blade at this point do it by hand with a soft cloth. Finally, put some Ren Wax on it and buff that by hand ...


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Old 10-25-2016, 11:50 AM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
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OH ok see I wasn't washing it maybe that's its I would just dry it off and lightly sand, I don't mean that I would really go at it and sand everything I was just trying to "expose" the silver color of the 15n20 as bef0re the sand paper everything is completely black... ill try washing it and see what happens
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Old 10-25-2016, 01:05 PM
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I understand. The silver color shows better by lightly polishing (light buffing) before the etch. The shiny part won't etch much (unless you etch too long) and the black that forms on it will rub off under running water just using your fingers. Then the wax darkens the black part and increases contrast with the silver. It's a balancing act and this is one of those situations where a light touch is best ...


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Old 10-25-2016, 01:48 PM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
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OK how far up the grits on the grinder would you go? any hand sanding before the buffer? I have been going to either 6 or 8 hundred on the grinder then clean it with rubbing alchol then right into the acid.
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  #11  
Old 10-25-2016, 02:21 PM
damon damon is offline
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ive done hand finish to 600... then clean..... etch till you can just start yo feel the layers with fingernail... spray with windex.... clean off with denatured alcohol... apply cold blue till its all black.... sand lightly with 2000 and 3 in 1 oil to bring back the contrast layers.

comes out looking like this.....
https://www.flickr.com/photos/oiseau...7629378096370/
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Old 10-25-2016, 03:12 PM
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I usually stop at 400 and no hand sanding on damascus (though I would if it looked like it was needed). I'd skip the alcohol, acetone, and paper towels as all of those things leave a film on the steel (as will your bare fingers so I wear nitrile gloves). The blade will never be cleaner than right after you finish it with a fresh belt - I go straight from the grinder into the etch. If I need more time the blade waits in a Tupperware container filled with distilled water ....


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Old 10-25-2016, 03:36 PM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
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thanks guys I am going t have to play around more with it tomorrow been helping mom with stuff today and I am dead tired and when I try to make knives tired I end up making a 2 second mistake that takes 2 hours to fix every time.... how ever damon yeh I have heard of the windex to stop the action of the acid but never heard of the cold blue trick and that pic you put up is very nice that's like what I wanted. Ray like you I dontdo hand sanding the reason I use the alchohole is cause its better as far as leaving a film layer than acetone does. however I think using distilled water would be even better so again thanks guys ill have some things to try tomorow
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