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The Newbies Arena Are you new to knife making? Here is all the help you will need.

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  #46  
Old 11-03-2016, 03:54 AM
jimmontg jimmontg is offline
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W2 is a tool steel and you will find it under Tool Steel. It is about $30 for a 1/8 by 1 1/2 by 48 bar. Says it has .91% of carbon so quench temperature would run about 1425-75 and should be about RC67 as quenched in 70 degree brine water. Notice the requirement of the part not getting to less than 150 degrees before temper at 400 for about a 60 hardness. Please note those HT instructions are for thick one inch round bars. That is the only tricky part about W2. Basically as soon as it stops boiling pop it in the preheated oven. Brine quenching is tricky and I only ever used it at work on machined parts that were thicker and about 1/4 in. at the thinnest part.

I have forged some Damascus with it mixed with 1055 and 15n20 and it didn't crack but I used 130 degree oil and it was about 120 when I put it in the temper oven after wiping it down. Quenching it in oil it won't be quite as hard, but would be less likely to crack before temper. Brine quenching will leave you a lot of cracked blades. There is clay you can put on the blades, but you don't want to get into that yet.

You should slowly heat it up, and in a forge that can be tricky, but you can put it in the temper oven first and then pop it into the forge near the front and slowly put it in further. Do you have a knife holding fixture? It can be made out of steel since we're only talking 1500 to 1700 temps. Would be easier to put the blade in that way so you don't have to hold it. In a fixture the blade can be held edge straight up and would slow some of the heating up a little.

To make a small single knife holder, you just need a long enough flat piece of 1/4" steel an inch and a half wide with four holes to run some bolts through to hold the blade's handle (not the blade). We've done this before and put the blade in and then started the forge, my brother was good at slow heating a blade that way. You see a lot knife tool steels that say to equalize at this or that temperature when all it really needs is a slow heat up. It's the best you can do with an unregulated forge.

W2 makes great hamons from what I have seen, sure did make a great ladder pattern Damascus blade. You can make a partial hamon just by watching and when the blade's edges start getting orange and the spine is still dull red then quench it edge down. Some 10% watered down ferric acid should show the differential HT. I've used apple cider vinegar too mixed with some blueing mix and that made a weird look, but definitely showed the differential. Your pics up above showed some of that or looked like it. Don't be afraid to experiment, you can always grind it off.LOL
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  #47  
Old 11-03-2016, 08:49 AM
gkyle840 gkyle840 is offline
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Ok thanks! I will get a length of the w2 a well as the 1084. I do have an it gun that I can get temp readings from as long as it is below 600?
With the W2 should I use the canola oil or look into brine?
I will definitely make a blade holder for the forge as it was very tedious using pliers the other night.
I definitely saw the hamon on my blade before I sanded it again. Can I bring it back with ferric acid?
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  #48  
Old 11-03-2016, 09:08 AM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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I don't think NJ carries W2. Don't worry about it, you don't need any other types of steel. All you need to focus on at this point is learning one steel very well. If you get 1080 or 1084 you will have access to many makers who have used it extensively by every imaginable methodology so when you have questions you can get a solid answer and not just a guess ...


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  #49  
Old 11-03-2016, 09:39 AM
gkyle840 gkyle840 is offline
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I did see W2 under tool steel on there website. I was wondering if I use ferric acid if I could bring the hamon line back in my knife made from 01 or if once I sanded it out it was gone.
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  #50  
Old 11-03-2016, 10:30 AM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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No, O1 is a very poor choice if you want a good hamon. 1084 will make an excellent hamon. But, first learn to HT the steel properly, worry about hamons later...


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  #51  
Old 11-03-2016, 10:52 AM
samuraistuart samuraistuart is offline
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Not only does the New Jersey Steel Baron carry W2, he has it in stock, and is the ONLY supplier who even has W2. USA Knife Maker has it was well, and gets it from him. Don Hanson has round bars (old stock), not sure if he is even selling any more of his stash.

What Ray said about sticking with one steel and learning it is excellent advice. W2 is not an beginner steel to HT. Sure, you can make it hard, but to get max hardness, you need a tight temp window and a VERY fast quench medium. Brine will get you max hardness, but with the risk of distortion/crack/ping/cuss word string. You really need a very fast oil to harden W2 to max hardness without the ping/cuss factor. Most aren't willing to pay for the 5 gallons and shipping of fast oil. Canola works, in thin (under 1/8") sections, and even then, maybe not max hardness.

O1 requires tight temp control as well to get it's max capability, but O1 does not need a fast oil, and canola will harden it well enough.

1080/1084 do not need as tight of a temp control, and will harden well enough in canola.
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  #52  
Old 11-03-2016, 02:10 PM
WNC Goater WNC Goater is offline
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1084 makes a good blade that will sharpen to hair popping easily, holds a good edge and is very forgiving of newbie mistakes. Newbies like me. :-)


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  #53  
Old 11-03-2016, 02:20 PM
jimmontg jimmontg is offline
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Yes Kyle, the guys are right, just stick to the 1084, but if you want for later go ahead and get the W2 as who knows, it may not be available next year and the blade holding fixture is a good idea anyway so get some 1018 for that from any sheet metal or machine shop around, they'll be happy to cut you a piece for a nominal fee, you don't need a 48" long piece of it.
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  #54  
Old 11-03-2016, 03:23 PM
gkyle840 gkyle840 is offline
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I will stick with 1084 for the blades.

....So, in the video below there is a tool he is using to back the sandpaper and and a piece of steel with leather he is resting the knife on to sand it. What would be involved it making these? I tried with a piece of steel I had from Lowe's and it turned out to be warped. Could I make something similar out of locally accessible supplies.
https://youtu.be/4I4x4QLpfnk
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  #55  
Old 11-03-2016, 04:26 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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Nothing special there. I don't think the knife rest is made of steel, it's probably just a piece of hardwood with leather on it and a hole in it to put a bolt through for clamping the blade down but a piece of angle iron would do just as well. No need to over think this stuff, simple is usually better. Don't worry about building the tool exactly as he did, just look at the concept and build something that will do the same job for you.

As for the tool he's using with the sandpaper, I couldn't see it well enough to be certain. It could be an old file or simply a bar of steel. H added some (probably) rubber blobs at the end to make it more comfortable to hold. Again, if you like the concept of using a tool like that then use the idea to make your own tool out of whatever you have or can get. I wrap sandpaper around a big file sometimes, other times I use a big rubber block that painters use for sanding from my local hardware store. Try to keep your thinking flexible...


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