Best things to turn into knives?

[Honed]

Ive heard of people turning files into knives, how about a leaf spring, lawn mower blades or tool heads like a hoe or shovel. Im trying to find something for my first knife and get the feel for things. how about rail road spikes and plates? is that metal ideal for holding an edge? Thanks for helping the new guy out.

[TexasJack]

This is a MUCH discussed topic and one which often disappoints the guy who raises the question.

Yes, there are some common items that can be made into knives. For many years car springs were made out of 5160, which is pretty good stuff for making knives. Also good quality files - like Nicholson - were made out of 1095.

Problem is that nowadays these things are made with all kinds of steel and it's really hard to tell what you've got. Car makers have been using all sorts of steels in their springs in order to make cars lighter. Files are often only surface hardened.

It isn't that some of these don't make good knifes - it's that you can't tell what heat treat to do to make them work.

Railroad spikes are often forged into knives because it's kind of a fun thing to do. Unfortunately, they don't have enough carbon to make good quality knives. Same goes for horseshoes.

The best recommendation is to get some steel that does have a known composition and use that. You can buy small quantities from Texas Knifemaker's supply or other similar suppliers.

If you just want to see if you can grind steel into shape, then just get any old piece of steel and grind out the blade pattern. Just don't expect it to make a quality knife.

[AUBE]

Out of the items listed leaf springs are the only one I would attempt using. But as TJ said you never know what you are going to get. We use them on occasion but we make a test blade or two first, then make sure the heat works on it. Some batches get harder than others.

I wouldn't really recommend it unless you just want forging/grinding practice. Known knife steel is cheap enough to purchase and you will save yourself a lot of headaches.

[Honed]

First off, thanks for the quick replies guys! Second off, im a 17 year old off school for the summer, i have no money and i have always wanted to try my hand at making a knife, so common things like railroad spikes, and files are what i have to work with and i will gladly use them as i am bound to screw up my first one or two before i buy some real steel.

[Doug Lester]

Of the things mentioned, leaf springs are probably the best, especially if you can get the whole assembly. Once you figure out the heat treatment, you've go a lot of steel to play with. The down side is that you will occasionally run into stress cracks that can ruin the blade that you're making or, at the very least, cause some last minute design changes.

Coil springs are usable but they are a pain to break down. A couple of years back there was a post from someone who had scored two large 1 1/2" coil springs that were accidentally made undersized and thought that he had a great find. A couple of weeks ago I noticed a post from someone who had two large 1 1/2" coil springs that were accidentally made a little undersized and wondered if anyone was interested in taking them off his hands. I suspect that they are the same person who went from celebrating a great find in knife steel to the realization that he had no way to break them down into usable bars.

Doug

[Ed Caffrey]

Industry, and the mentality of building things as cheaply as possible have really ruined using "recycled" materials for blades. The reason being is that you simply have no idea of what the material(s) actually are. For example lets' use car springs....auto manufacturers seek out the least expensive part/material that will meet the specifications of the application. In the past (like a decade ago) an auto maker would put in an order for XXX number of leaf springs, and specify the exact material, along with all other specs they wanted. In the interest of saving money, when those orders are placed these days, the auto maker DO NOT specify a particular type of steel....they list the specifications that the part(s) must meet, and will make a notation that they want the cheapest material (steel) that meets the specifications. That means that the springs could be, and often are different materials (steels) from order to order. This also holds true for most consumer products including mower blades, hoes, shovels, and just about any other item you can think of that is made of "steel".

About the best a person can hope for these days if they feel like they must use recycled material, is to try it and see if it will work. The problem there is that you will put out a lot of time, effort, and energy, and the end product might, or might not work.

About the only product that I can think of that has remained the same are Nicholson Black Diamond files. They are the same makeup as 1095 steel, but with a 1.27+/- carbon content. The most recent testing that I had done on those files was approx. 2 years ago.....so that may not even be so today.

Wish I had better news for you, and that I could direct you to a specific item, but that's just not the case.

[Cthulhu]

I was a big fan of junkyard steel before, esp. Leaf and coil springs, because it was cheap and available, but I'm glad you guys dropped this info on us.

Just out of curiousity, is there a cut off year when the car makers stopped consistantly using good steel like 5160?

[Ed Caffrey]

It's only an educated guess, but in my experience, the sort of "ordering the cheapest" when it comes to manufacturing began sometime in the early 80s.....at that time there was still a huge supply of "parts" in scrapyards/wrecking yards, that pre-dated the time period. These days, with the emphasis that recycling presents, it's difficult to find/identify anything pre-1980 in the scrap/wrecking yards.
The old books/texts that told what parts were made of what materials USED to be reliable.....not so in this day and age.

That's the reason why you see many of use urging folks to use new/known materials.....at around $20-$30 for a 4-6 ft bar of new/known "carbon" blade steel, it's just not worth the time, energy, and hassle of putting all the time and effort into a blade, only to find that it was all in vain. In reality, steel is one of the cheapest inputs to a knife....why not give yourself the best chances for success that you can?

[Doug Lester]

Here's another thing to consider. Let's stay with leaf springs from autos. Regardless of the actual alloy, there's a real good chance that they will be of a steel that will make a decent knife but that still leaves you in the dark about the actual chemical make up of the steel and therein lies the problem. Something like 1095 has different heat treating requirements than 5160 which is similar to 9260 but 9260 is shallower hardening than 5160 but deeper hardening than 1095. The 1095 will form more in the way of carbides and be harder, as quenched, than the other two. The 5160 and 9260 will form more ferrite and be tougher if allowed to form pearletic steel. Both the 1095 and the 9260 will form significant retained austinite but for different reasons. You can do a differential hardening with 1095 and 9260 by clay coating but that probably will not work with 5160.

There is no way we can tell how the steel in these leaf springs will react by looking at them or knowing the make and model of the vehicle. If you have several leaf springs from the same assembly or the entire assembly then it may be worth your time and money to send a piece out for analysis so you can start with an idea of how the steel that you have should behave. If you have several individual leafs from these cars and those trucks then you would have to send a piece of each off for analysis and then keep it all straight.

Doug

[Cthulhu]

Good info, guys, and thanks.

#### shame to see potentially good steel rust away to nothing in some junkyard.

[Crex]

If you want/have to use recycled steels, you need to be willing to do a lot of trial and error testing, and be willing to burn a lot of energy in the process. While good practice, it can be very frustrating to work that hard and still get poor results. You really have to "want to do it".
I like to use recycled metals and have for many years, but have learned (as well stated above) that one has to be very selective in what one uses. There is a certain amount of adventure in the mystery of it and one can get an awful lot of practice in during the process.
You have to be honest with yourself (and others) if you go this route. You don't know for certain what the steel is, but through extensive testing can be sure it is or is not a good servicable knife when finished. Emphasis is on "extensive" and you must be willing to make 'em and brake 'em........a lot of them!
All recycled steels have the potential for hidden stress cracks and flaws, just expect them and stay away from joints, corners and holes. I have always heard that mid 60's and earlier leaf springs are reasonably safe bet on 5160 (still a bet). I like the results I get from 50's Chevy and Ford P/U's, very consistant. I did some blades out of an 80's Ford Ranger spring on special request that really surprised me. I know it wasn't 5160 just by the way it moved under the hammer, but the results were impressive. Still I'm not going out of my way to procure more Ford Ranger springs....to iffy.

Sorry, but got a chuckle out of the statement:
"as i am bound to screw up my first one or two before i buy some real steel."
Very optimistic........have fun and I wish you well.

Your best bet is to get with a local maker and learn some basics, before you waste a lot of time experimenting. Post you general location and you may find someone here is close enough by for a visit and help.

[Honed]

Originally Posted by Crex

Your best bet is to get with a local maker and learn some basics, before you waste a lot of time experimenting. Post you general location and you may find someone here is close enough by for a visit and help.

I appreciate the offer but no, i have to do this alone. Its all the fun saying i did it with no help.

[Crex]

Ok....

[Doug Lester]

The problem is you've already started getting help by asking questions here.

Doug

[terence]

it never hurts to have fun and just go in blind. start the fire and grind away. trap springs, old tools, etc.