6150 anyone?

[SteveS]

I'm just searching around, planning on a forged knife.

What about 6150? Is there not enough carbon for a hard edged hunter?

I've seen it mentioned here and there but not much. Seen it used for swords.

All I have is from Wayne's book:

A little harder to move than 5160.
Makes a very distinct hamon.



Steve

[sdcb27]

Itll work well

[GHEzell]

I've got some I bought awhile back, but haven't tried yet. The guy I got it from said it was very close to 5160. I'll forge out a test blade and get back to you...

Judging by the alloy content, I'd think the chromium and vanadium would give it better edge-holding than 1050, which has about the same amount of carbon. Admiral lists the stats as C .48/.53 Mn .70/.90 P .035 max S .040 max Si .15/.35 Cr .80/1.10 V .15 min....sounds like really good stuff for a big chopper.

From Metal Supplers Online

6150 is a fine grained, highly abrasion resistant carbon-chromium alloy steel. Very good shock resistance and toughness are also key properties of this alloy in the heat treated condition.

Doing a quick search, noticed it is often used for hex keys and spline bits....interesting....Crucible says it is used for chisels, punches, fixtures, machinery parts, piston rods , and springs.

[Danbo]

I have forged a blade out of it, but have not heat treated or ground it yet. Forges like butter, compared to steels like L6 and W2 and O1. Should make a pretty good blade. Might not hold an edge quite as long as O1, but should be a good bit tougher.

I'm actually going to forge out a couple of garden tools out of some 6150. Should work very well for the Cape Cod style weeder I have in mind.

[SteveS]

Thanks for the info guys. Guess I shouldn't worry about the low carbon content this with the other alloys in there. The Vanadium % is low enough that maybe it doesn't steal too much of the carbon. Then again Vanadium carbides are the cat's PJ's.

My interest is that in Wayne Goddard's Wonder of Knifemaking he mentions the very visible Hamon he got with it. I was hoping you could get the toughness properties of 5160 and the hamon of 1084.

OK we'll see. And GHEzell, I'll be looking forward to your report.

Steve

[Mike Turner]

I would not click the link guys maybe malicious or spam can a mod deal with this, this thread is from 2004

[Robert Mayo]

I reported it as spam yesterday i guess the mods are on vacation!

[Doug Lester]

Yes and no on the carbon content. It is the carbon in the steel that causes the formation of martensite in the quench and hardens the blade. The carbides in the steel will contribute to hardness to a degree and also promote wear resistance but there are limits. The advantage to this alloy is that it will form more ferrite when it is cooled slowly which would make it a good candidate for edge quenching but doubtfully worth while for attempting hamons or clay quenching due to the chromium and vanadium content which makes it a deep hardening steel. It's all about trade offs. You gain something and you loose something else and visa versa.

The ITT diagram that I have for it put the nose of the curve at about 900* at 3-4 seconds time. The A1 point looks to be about 1380-1390* and the Ms point about 560-570*.

Doug

[Robert Washburn]

I have used it a lot.My ABS Joirneyman knife was made from it.It is hard to forge and he-- to heat treat but,I like it. Robert

[Robert Washburn]

I have used it a lot.My ABS Journeyman test knife was made from it.It is hard to forge and he-- to heat treat but,I like it. Robert

[Gary Mulkey]

Steve,

It's very easy to get caught up in all of the various steels since there are so many available these days and there is no one perfect steel. (only steels with known strengths & weaknesses) You will find that the quality of any given knife is more contengient on the accuracy of the H/T then it is on the steel itself. For this reason I would recommend using a very forgiving steel, especially to start with. Do some research on the more popular knife steels. It can save you a lot of time & frustration in the shop.

Whatever steel you decide to use, I would recommend sticking with it until you know it well. Getting the most out of a particular steel is more important than what steel that you use in most cases.

Gary

[Doug Lester]

Gary, you could not have said it better. There are several good blade steels out there. Some are easy to forge and others should probably be reservered for stock removal. Some are very easy to heat treat and some have more demanding requirements-but they all have requirements. Pick one or two steels and learn them. Stick with them unless you have a reason to go to something else, like better performance or availability. Don't fall victim to the flavor of the month because every steel has it's strengths and weaknesses.

Doug

[mookster]

I've just got back from getting some samples from a supplier here in Sao Paulo. I wanted 1070 or something like that, as I am fairly new to this, and wanted something forgiving to work with. The guy at the supplier said that 6150 would be hard but tough, with good edge holding, but was talking about 300 degrees celsius to temper. I have to say that in the state I got it, which was slightly bent 2x25mm it cuts like a dream with a hacksaw and stock removal feels pretty easy as well.
I'd love to post some useful info about how it heat treats, but I don't know enough. However, the guy did say that I could take any blades I make to him to check out the hardness etc, so maybe I could try that.
He gave me enough to make 4 small kitchen knives, and as and when I make them, I'll try and post anything useful here.
Cheers

[Doug Lester]

Mookster, I would think that 300 degrees C. would be way too hot. That would be taking it back up above the Ms point. That would not remove the martinsite, you would have to reaustinze the steel to achieve that, but it would make it too soft to hold an edge. I would recommend that you do an initial tempering at 200 degrees for at least two 2 hour cycles then test. Adjust the temperature up or down by 25 degrees to lower or increase the hardness as needed until you get the results that you want.

Doug

[mookster]

I just read here http://www.westyorkssteel.com/aisi_6150.html that you can only temper to 56HRc and that is at 100C. This seems very soft to a beginner like me. Am I missing something?