MEMBER ITEMS FOR SALE
Custom Knives | Other Knives | General Items
-------------------------------------------
New Posts | New PhotosAll Photos



Go Back   The Knife Network Forums : Knife Making Discussions > Custom Knife Discussion Boards > Ed Caffrey's Workshop

Ed Caffrey's Workshop Talk to Ed Caffrey ... The Montana Bladesmith! Tips, tricks and more from an ABS Mastersmith.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 11-08-2012, 09:23 AM
Dana Hackney's Avatar
Dana Hackney Dana Hackney is offline
Skilled
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Bonners Ferry, ID
Posts: 537
Okay, here's the bottom line: I hope we recognize America in a other 4 years, and hope, if we are in ruins, the folks can have enough intellectual honesty to see the failure and elect someone that can dig us out (if that would be possible). I don't want the US looking like Greece in another few years.

Since we are more polarized that in any other time in history why not split the country in two and let the conservatives live under their form of government on one half and the libs take the other? Voila! problem solved .

I'm not adding anymore to this thread after this post. It is curious, though, that the most vocal of the lot is that one that got his man in the White House. Why complain when you won Just a thought.

Cheers,
Dana
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 11-08-2012, 09:52 AM
Doug Lester Doug Lester is offline
Hall of Famer
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Decatur, IL
Posts: 2,612
I really hate these threads and I commend Ed on keeping an eye on things. Folks, remember that not everyone sees things the way that you do. If you can't see why the heck someone could possibly vote for Obama remember that there are those of us who can't see how you could have voted Romney for X,Y, and/or Z reasons. Remember this also, the country will survive. The Constitution is intact and we still have three branches of government that can check and balance each other. The United States has survived much worse presidents than Obama or what Romney could have been and it will continue to as long as we have a populace that is politically involved and respects the rule of law. So fuss, bitch, grip, celebrate, or gloat as your heart dictates then get about the business of being Americans and work with each other instead of against. What this country cannot survive is a populace that is so polarized that we are constantly at each other's throats and vilifying anyone who doesn't see things the way we do.

Doug


__________________
If you're not making mistakes then you're not trying hard enough
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 11-08-2012, 10:05 AM
cdent cdent is offline
Master
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: aiea, hi
Posts: 805
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cthulhu View Post
....It's not irrelevant. If your wife/kid/partner runs up your credit card bill, you still have to pay it. Same here.

He's had 4 years to fix what took EIGHT years to break, and with the Republicans refusing to do their part....

....when they and their whacky Tea baggers buddies (Since disavowed, so we can consider them a marriage of convinience) actually got elected, what did they do? I'll tell you what they didn't do, they didn't, and still haven't produced a single jobs bill. None. And just before they went to break, the GOP refused to vote for a bill that would help put returning veterans back to work!....


.....What Obama did was shut down permits where Oil companies were just parking on the leases so no one else could use them. The permits that were shut down were not being drilled on.
But lets address something else. Does it make ANY sense to you to let Big Energy drill on our publically owned lands, in our national parks, pay the Goverment (Which is all of us, btw) pennies for the right to drill, and then SELL our National resources to China? Because that oil doesn't STAY here, sold to us at a lower rate because well, it's ours, and taken from our land, but being sold for millions on the world market....


....it's a step in the right direction. Now, you cannot be dropped or refused for having a pre existing condition. Did you know that insurance companies list things like having a baby or donating a kidney as preexisting conditions and refuse people because of it? The ACA is saving lives, and already has. Heres a list of what the ACA actually does. I defy you to find anything bad in there.
http://www.randirhodes.com/pages/rrn...rticle=9945405

Of course, the best thing is for us to have a single payer system, or extend Medicare coverage to all who want it. We can afford to spend more money than the next 20 nations COMBINED on the military, force the military to buy tanks they don't want or need, but we can't afford to keep our citizens healthy? I thought we were supposed the bet BETTER than countries like France, not worse....

.....Benghazi? Seriously?.....the absolute filth being sprayed around regarding this incident to try and find something, anything, to smear this president, is inexcusable....

.....We're better than this, America. Time to step up and prove it. Timeto ask ourselves and our neighbors, are you an AmeriCAN, an AmeriCAN'T or an AmeriaWON'T?


Instead of repeating the same deficit stories, how about looking at timelines, spending and borrowing and see for yourself when control switched over. Please note, 'fixing' what the previous guy broke should mean the deficit gets smaller. Run the math, if your guy does the same spending and borrowing of the previous administration, and gave every unemployed person 50k. I think you would see that we would have zero unemployment and less deficit. Look to see how the money was spent and what's to show for it.

What's a teabagger? reid hasn't put out a senate budget in close to four years, Paul Ryan was hammered before and particular after the VP running mate announcement for....his detailed budget proposal including jobs creation.

Drilling on public land? It's severely restricted down and small increases in domestic petroleum production are on private land. Selling energy to China, only if they pay more, right? That's tons of high paying American jobs supporting the American economy, but where's the rule that says it has to be sold on the foreign market to net pennies on the dollar. If the will was there, a stroke of the regulatory pen could mandate that it has to stay at home if you want the permit.

Same with health care. All of the advantages that you see could be had legislatively for...free. Portability, preexisting conditions etc. etc. could be legislated. If you get the chance, look up what it will cost an employer and imagine if it were dumped on your lap, how easy it would be to keep let alone hire a new employee. We have the best health care in the world bar none. As we know there are always exceptions, but we are not an unhealthy nation, and there always have been safety nets for anyone.

When your leaders say they are doing the peoples work and the republicans are filibustering, take a little bit of time to look up all the spending strings for pet projects that are attached. The military budget is a great example, they've had to cough up billions out of their mission for green projects, the recent east coast gas give away and things like cash for clunkers.

Interesting even four years later benghazi can be brushed off as being someone elses fault. The previous president is a good team player. I'd think it'd be tougher to blame him if he ran to a microphone every other day like past democratic presidents tend to do.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 11-08-2012, 12:09 PM
Doug Lester Doug Lester is offline
Hall of Famer
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Decatur, IL
Posts: 2,612
Sorry, cdent, but I couldn't let the "best health care bar none" comment pass. I've worked in health care since high school and when I see that phrase I just about want to gag. There are many groups to blame but we have a poor system of health care delivery and it's getting worse. There are many countries that have better outcomes for a far lower costs. We have far to many treatments that do nothing but enrich the medical industry. Too many patented medications that are no better but far more expensive than generics. Too many treatments that present more danger than the disease that they treat or leave the patient worse off than if nothing had been done in the first place.

Yes, we probably do lead the world in the development of innovative procedures and medicines but only offer them to the people who can afford it. We are the only industrialized nation in the world that considers adequate health care to be a privilege.

Doug


__________________
If you're not making mistakes then you're not trying hard enough
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 11-08-2012, 12:47 PM
Dana Hackney's Avatar
Dana Hackney Dana Hackney is offline
Skilled
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Bonners Ferry, ID
Posts: 537
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Lester View Post
I really hate these threads and I commend Ed on keeping an eye on things. Folks, remember that not everyone sees things the way that you do. If you can't see why the heck someone could possibly vote for Obama remember that there are those of us who can't see how you could have voted Romney for X,Y, and/or Z reasons. Remember this also, the country will survive. The Constitution is intact and we still have three branches of government that can check and balance each other. The United States has survived much worse presidents than Obama or what Romney could have been and it will continue to as long as we have a populace that is politically involved and respects the rule of law. So fuss, bitch, grip, celebrate, or gloat as your heart dictates then get about the business of being Americans and work with each other instead of against. What this country cannot survive is a populace that is so polarized that we are constantly at each other's throats and vilifying anyone who doesn't see things the way we do.

Doug
Sorry, Doug, I could not let this one slip either. Obama has been the main source of polarization, as he has refused to "work together" with those across the isle. That is why all the obamacare and a host of other regs (as Craig so astutely pointed out) where jammed thru without regard to constitutional procedure. Most conservatives are willing to work together if given a chance.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 11-08-2012, 01:26 PM
Walt2's Avatar
Walt2 Walt2 is offline
Steel Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: So. Central Tex
Posts: 128
I have a son that owns a business that he built from scratch, happened to be in the right place at the right time, and employs between 650-700 people. He says that with Obama back in, he will have to lay off some people. His co. is large enough that he is what they call self insured on health insurance. He said that when Obamare gets kicked in the employees insurance premiums will at least double if not more. He is the second business man that I have heard make the statement about having to lay off people.

There are already a lot of doctors stopping seeing Medicare patients and there will be more in the future. My wife and I have already had to deal with this.


__________________
Walter R. Powers
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 11-08-2012, 01:53 PM
Doug Lester Doug Lester is offline
Hall of Famer
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Decatur, IL
Posts: 2,612
Crammed through without regard to constitutional procedure? The last I checked the Supreme Court said that he health care regulations put forth were allowed by the constitution. I also not do recall the president saying that his primary job was to make sure that no Republican lead initiatives became law nor has he vetoed bill after bill the way the Republicans have blocked votes in the Senate. As far as conservatives being will to work with the President, they sure have had a funny way of showing it. Bipartisanship is an extinct species in the Congress, though I hold both sides equally responsible

Is there a better way to handle health care? Undoubtedly. Is Obama the reason that doctors are stopping taking Medicare patients. No, that has been going on for decades. I worked for a hospital back in the 80's that was put out of business due to Medicare and Medicaid regulations that forced it to provide care for less that what it cost to run the hospital. Will employers really have to lay off employees due to health care costs? Possibly, but that, or dropping health insurance altogether, due to the cost has also predated the Obama administration.

Doug


__________________
If you're not making mistakes then you're not trying hard enough
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 11-08-2012, 01:54 PM
Cthulhu Cthulhu is offline
Skilled
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Kannapolis, NC.
Posts: 439
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dana Hackney View Post
Sorry, Doug, I could not let this one slip either. Obama has been the main source of polarization, as he has refused to "work together" with those across the isle. That is why all the obamacare and a host of other regs (as Craig so astutely pointed out) where jammed thru without regard to constitutional procedure. Most conservatives are willing to work together if given a chance.
I don't pretend this is going to change your mind, but I'll try.

Obama doesn't work with the GOP? Honestly?

Obama caved to them so often, he completely infuriated his base.

It wasn't Obama who stood in front of the country and said, "The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president. " That was Mitch McConnell.

And it wasn't Obama who went on to use the most filibusters in the history of the nation, or the most obstructive house and senate in history either.

Obama ain't perfect, and has made a lot of mistakes, but you cannot blame him for this. The facts do not bear it out. Again, they day of his inaguration, the GOP got together and held a meeting where they swore to oppose EVERY single thing the President put forth and endorsed, even things they previously were for.

No president could get much done in conditions like this. No other president has faced such a thing.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 11-08-2012, 03:38 PM
Ed Caffrey's Avatar
Ed Caffrey Ed Caffrey is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Great Falls, Montana, USA
Posts: 4,393
Send a message via AIM to Ed Caffrey Send a message via Yahoo to Ed Caffrey
I realize this is a highly charged subject, but let's just ensure that we keep it on track with civility. Everybody is doing great right now.....just don't let your emotions get the best of you and I'll let it keep going. Thanks!


__________________
WWW.CAFFREYKNIVES.NET

Caffreyknives@gmail.com

"Every CHOICE has a CONSEQUENCE, and all your CONSEQUENCES are a result of your CHOICES."
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 11-08-2012, 04:32 PM
cdent cdent is offline
Master
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: aiea, hi
Posts: 805
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Lester View Post
....Is Obama the reason that doctors are stopping taking Medicare patients. No, that has been going on for decades.....

Hey Doug,

He's taking over 700 billion dollars out of medicare. He is at the very least the specific reason there will be that amount of services decreased. He has said it will all come from eliminating waste and fraud, but the CBO says that at the most that would come to around 60 billion. Seniors who paid in all there working lives are being bombarded with sales pitches for supplemental plans. Either pay as you go or through a supplemental plan, seniors will be hit financially in a way many can't afford to be.

As an aside, one of your points about US healthcare problems was prescription drug costs. Didn't the president consult with big pharma companies while creating ocare and give them assurances, such as blocking direct prescription purchases from Canada, that they would not face competition for their support.

I'm just not the biggest fan of the various socialized medicine countries, and those are generally where stats come for getting more bang for the buck. If I had truck load of money, I'd still have my wife treated in the US for anything even if I had the pick of the world. Which country would you go to if cost were not a factor.

Craig
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 11-08-2012, 05:10 PM
Dana Hackney's Avatar
Dana Hackney Dana Hackney is offline
Skilled
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Bonners Ferry, ID
Posts: 537
You are right

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cthulhu View Post
I don't pretend this is going to change your mind, but I'll try.

Obama doesn't work with the GOP? Honestly?

Obama caved to them so often, he completely infuriated his base.

It wasn't Obama who stood in front of the country and said, "The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president. " That was Mitch McConnell.

And it wasn't Obama who went on to use the most filibusters in the history of the nation, or the most obstructive house and senate in history either.

Obama ain't perfect, and has made a lot of mistakes, but you cannot blame him for this. The facts do not bear it out. Again, they day of his inaguration, the GOP got together and held a meeting where they swore to oppose EVERY single thing the President put forth and endorsed, even things they previously were for.

No president could get much done in conditions like this. No other president has faced such a thing.
....it won't and neither do Doug's comments, just as everyone else here will not change yours.

Cheers,
Dana
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 11-08-2012, 05:35 PM
Walt2's Avatar
Walt2 Walt2 is offline
Steel Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: So. Central Tex
Posts: 128
I asked my son what would be the main issues that would cause him to have to lay off people since Obama got back in and these are the reasons he listed:

MAJOR TAX INCREASES
Medical Insurance cost increases
Regulation increases

This will be the first time in 17 yrs he will probably be laying off anyone. A large part of his business is in the health care industry, hospitals and nursing homes.


__________________
Walter R. Powers
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 11-08-2012, 07:54 PM
Doug Lester Doug Lester is offline
Hall of Famer
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Decatur, IL
Posts: 2,612
Sorry, supplemental plans were around long before Obama. Medicare has never covered all the costs of health care. As far as blocking the reimport of medicines from Canada, that has been illegal for years, even before Bush 43. Also, has it ever struck you as odd that you could get American made medications from Canada cheaper than you can get it in the US? Most of that money that he took from Medicare is what was paid private insurance companies to administer Medicare as a supposed cost savings that turned out to be a cost increase.

As far as tax increases go, we will have to have them. Politicians have been selling the people on the idea of a free lunch for so long it's gotten to the place that it's caused a recession and a reduction of services. Medical insurance cost increases have been rising faster than the cost of living for decades and they would have raised just as quickly as Romney's health care plan, you know the one that Obama's pattern after. Oh, yes, and regulations, the lack of which gave us things like Enron, which was given special exemption from existing regulation, the collapse of the housing market, and the derivatives mess. But I forget. Wall Street knows best, along with Bernie Madoff.

Cheers.
Doug


__________________
If you're not making mistakes then you're not trying hard enough
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 11-08-2012, 10:56 PM
Doug Lester Doug Lester is offline
Hall of Famer
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Decatur, IL
Posts: 2,612
You know, it's just struck me that this whole thing is useless. The people who believe that Obama is the worst thing to happen to this country ever are still going to believe it and those of us who felt that Romney would have sold the country out to Wall Street will believe that. We all voted our votes and the Democrats won and the Republicans didn't. We're happy and you're not just as you would have been happy and we wouldn't have been if the vote had gone the other way. So my best advice for you is to get over it just as it would have been the best advice for us if our side had lost.

What will happen will happen and the country will survive in the end just as it would if it had gone the other way. So I'll take the advice of an old Irishman: Never argue with an idiot. You'll confuse the onlookers and they'll not be able to tell who's who. (For those who can't tell, that's said tongue in cheek)

If you want to post a reply, fine, but I have no intention of reading it. It's time for this to end.

Doug


__________________
If you're not making mistakes then you're not trying hard enough
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 11-08-2012, 11:48 PM
cdent cdent is offline
Master
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: aiea, hi
Posts: 805
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Lester View Post
You know, it's just struck me that this whole thing is useless. The people who believe that Obama is the worst thing to happen to this country ever are still going to believe it and those of us who felt that Romney would have sold the country out to Wall Street will believe that. We all voted our votes and the Democrats won and the Republicans didn't. We're happy and you're not just as you would have been happy and we wouldn't have been if the vote had gone the other way. So my best advice for you is to get over it just as it would have been the best advice for us if our side had lost.

What will happen will happen and the country will survive in the end just as it would if it had gone the other way. So I'll take the advice of an old Irishman: Never argue with an idiot. You'll confuse the onlookers and they'll not be able to tell who's who. (For those who can't tell, that's said tongue in cheek)

If you want to post a reply, fine, but I have no intention of reading it. It's time for this to end.

Doug

Got my hand up, I'll be the idiot here. For me, it's never been about feelings, emotion, whiners or losers. I'm only interested in the issues and the facts, and I'll admit if I'm wrong. I wouldn't have commented if this was a cheerleading thread, but I perceived questionable things that were presented as facts.

I don't like beating the ole dead horse, but now and then you see a little twitch. Thanks Ed C. for the latitude. Great place to visit and I'm always interested in what Doug L. has to say.

Craig
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
art, at home, back, bee, casting, choose, cleaning, drill, forge, hammer, hand, home, how to, hunting, iron, knifemaking, made, make, making, man, military, pitch, pocket, post, trap


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2012 Hammerin sdeering Canadian Knifemakers Guild 0 06-18-2012 01:53 PM
Finished 5-7-2012 ArtinNC The North Carolina Custom Knifemakers Guild Forum 7 05-14-2012 03:01 PM
Condor MY 2012 willows The Display Case 5 01-30-2012 04:53 AM
2012 Pricing lunde Randall Knives Forum 3 12-23-2011 03:40 PM
winter evenings turnout tim wagendorp The Outpost 4 11-27-2002 05:38 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:37 PM.




KNIFENETWORK.COM
Copyright © 2000
? CKK Industries, Inc. ? All Rights Reserved
Powered by ...

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
The Knife Network : All Rights Reserved