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The Newbies Arena Are you new to knife making? Here is all the help you will need.

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  #1  
Old 08-01-2016, 10:46 AM
shiny shiny is offline
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bulky bolster material

Hi guy's,
Let me introduce myself. I am new to knife making. Made 3 knifes before. That's some time ago. I like all sorts of knifes. High performance blades really get me off. I like damascus and japanese blades at the moment. I live in the Netherlands...

I like to make a chef knife with a stainless steel bolster as in the picture below. I can get bolster material through my supplier but it's only 0.196 inch thick only. Could I just get any piece of stainless and soften it to work with? Will I be able to heat treat it with a torch after fitting the tang?

Thanks in advance!

Man! This guy knows how to design a knife!
That's just an incredibly good looking piece of art...
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  #2  
Old 08-01-2016, 01:42 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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If you buy new steel it will already be as soft as it will get. If you get stainless that is already hardened a torch will not do a really good job of softening it though it will get somewhat softer. You cannot harden stainless properly with a torch.

For my tastes, .196 would be more than thick enough. But, if you want more then just use two pieces (or three) . You could put a contrasting spacer between the pieces ....


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  #3  
Old 08-01-2016, 03:24 PM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
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http://usaknifemaker.com/knife-blade...s-c-93-35.html

on that link look for either 410 or 416 stainless they have both thicker than.196
or

http://www.knifemaking.com/category-s/778.htm

they also have stainless bars for bolsters check them both out the first site has up to 1/4 second 3/8 th I THINK double check that either way I have used steel from both of those links for bolsters and both worked great just make sure you also order the same kind of stainless steel pins or rod stock from the same place if you want the pins to bled in and dissapeer
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  #4  
Old 08-01-2016, 03:26 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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David, he lives in the Netherlands so ordering steel from us may not be his smartest move ...


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  #5  
Old 08-01-2016, 03:39 PM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
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oh ah ha I don't know how I missed that yeh shipping metal bars across the atlantic probilly aint the cheapest way to get your steel ,,,,,sorry that went right over my head
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  #6  
Old 08-01-2016, 06:24 PM
jimmontg jimmontg is offline
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Shiny, I hope I understand you right.

Are you talking about softening the bolster material that is 5 mm thick? Or are you asking can you get knife steel and soften it? You cannot heat treat stainless high carbon steels with a torch, you can do plain high carbon non-stainless steel. What alloy is your knife made of? Nevermind the bolster, 5 mm is fine just blend the handle material down to it. But I need to know what your knife's steel is made of.
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  #7  
Old 08-02-2016, 05:50 AM
shiny shiny is offline
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I was talking about getting my hands on any steel that looks (tests) stainless to me and soften it myself for using as bolster material. But that isn't going to happen with a torch I understand from Roy. I like to make the bolster exactly as in the picture above. That means it must be 0.5 inch thick at least.

Unfortunately my bolster plan isn't going to work for this specific project; the blade is already forged (in Japan) and doesn't have any pin holes at the bolster position. I totally forgot about that. I understood that epoxy alone will not be secure enough for holding the bolster? I want it to last "forever".

The steel is damascus with a VG10 core. That's literally all I know about it. Below is a picture of the blade type. I am buying 4 different blades with the same specifications; a santoku, gyuto, office knife and a nakiri -blade. The blades are already heat treated so drilling is not an option.

Last edited by shiny; 08-02-2016 at 06:53 AM.
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  #8  
Old 08-02-2016, 08:18 AM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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You may be making the same mistake most new knife makers fall into - trying to do too much too soon. I know you have made three knives before but unless they were exactly the handle style you want on these new knives you might want to reconsider your approach.

Making any new type of handle, or working with a new steel for the first time, is not a good idea if you want the knife to last 'forever'. The first time you try some new handle style the results will not be your best effort. You may like it at first but to most people it likely will appear a bit clunky. Also, how do you know you will be happy with this style 'forever'? Have you worked with a knife that had a massive little chunk of steel on the front of it before? If not, you may find it affects the balance of your knife in a negative way. Finally, how are you going to get a nice clean slot through a chunk of steel like that? Maybe you're a machinist and have access to an EDM or CNC, I don't know. But, if you are limited to hand tools then my earlier suggestion of several thinner pieces will be a much easier approach.

We try not to copy another's work exactly. Use some imagination and make this knife your own by changing some small details besides the damascus blade.

You would be wise to put those 'forever' blades aside for now and get some similar plain steel blades to practice on. That heavy steel ferrule and octagonal handle are not trivial things to make. So, make a couple from plain steel with less expensive handle materials and give them away to friends or relatives if you want. This will give you a chance to not only learn the skills you need but also a chance to find out what you really like and don't like in a knife that you plan to use for the rest of your life. A pretty picture just isn't enough for a life time commitment ...


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Last edited by Ray Rogers; 08-02-2016 at 08:30 AM.
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  #9  
Old 08-02-2016, 11:01 AM
shiny shiny is offline
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You are right Ray. When I started thinking more concretely about how to make a nice clean slot through such a long steel ferrule I realized how next to impossible it would have been.

I rarely do make compromises when I like something, but I have reconsidered my design for the sake of doablility (and the other reasons you mentioned). Instead I am going to use a very thin 1 or 2 milimeter thick octagonal steel "bolster" plate. Maybe several would actually be a good idea. Depends on how it looks. I could even experiment with titanium plates if balance (which I do find important) is an issue. I will indeed buy some cheaper steel for my experiments. I can get 1095 steel for a reasonable price.

My biggest fear is a beltgrinder. I will have one available to me is an industrial one of good quality but not a knifemakers one. So I am anxious to find out how helpful it will be. Being able to grind a main bevel on a chefsknife (first smaller blades) could be impossible. I have no clue.

Good tips BTW, thanks Ray
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  #10  
Old 08-02-2016, 12:22 PM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
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if your going to use thinner materials why not do what ray suggested in his first post put some kinda thin spacer material in between the metal pieces...this wont make the difficulty to much harder (if you can cut and shape the matal to fit I think you can do the same with spacer) it will also add some thickness you wont have to put as many metal pieces on and give it contrast in look.....as far as the grinder its just practice I have a grinder made for a knifemaker and even with that there is a lot of practice to get things right I still make mistakes all the time and have to go back and fix it all the time, never got through a knife without either changing something or fixing something that was not planned in the begging
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  #11  
Old 08-02-2016, 12:30 PM
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One big advantage to using several thinner pieces of metal for the ferrule is that the slot only has to be perfect in the first one, after that a little slop doesn't matter. It is very possible, even likely, that the large one on the knives you admire is actually several smaller pieces. All the same material, especially stainless, can blend so well the joint is near invisible....


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Last edited by Ray Rogers; 08-02-2016 at 12:32 PM.
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  #12  
Old 08-02-2016, 12:42 PM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
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Ray you teach me things even when I am not trying to learn I have only done 2 hidden tangs so I cant give exact advice but I understand how it works I didn't even think about only the first piece had to be perfect I would have loved to know that on the last one do you have any clue how much time I spent trying to get every piece a perfect fit not even the couple piece I threw away because the slot was to big. I understand it , it makes sense my mind was so focused on getting the to be a real tight fit that never crossed my mind so and again.....
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  #13  
Old 08-02-2016, 01:02 PM
shiny shiny is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Rogers View Post
One big advantage to using several thinner pieces of metal for the ferrule is that the slot only has to be perfect in the first one, after that a little slop doesn't matter. It is very possible, even likely, that the large one on the knives you admire is actually several smaller pieces. All the same material, especially stainless, can blend so well the joint is near invisible....
...that sounds very interesting. Both the fact that it tends to blend well and the fact that you only need the first piece to fit perfectly. Never thought of that indeed Dtec1.

I like the bulky look Dtec1, that is the only reason. I will also use some spacer material elsewhere in the handle for dellicate accents...

For now I will probably start with just one very thin slice of octagonal shaped steel in a practice knife instead of a bulky bolster. Just to make things a little easyer.
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  #14  
Old 08-02-2016, 01:23 PM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
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yeh we both learned a lil on that one...as far as blending IF its a tight fit (up agents each other not agenst the tang) AND the same material or very similar it will blend seamlessly...I hove done bolsters (on a full tang knife) with 416 Stainless material and used 410 stainless pins and they blended even tho the aint exact same material they are close enough of corse if ya can try and keep it the same unless yuou want it different I did one brass bolster with copper pins and it looked really good one of the knives in this batch I am doing I am going to do copper bolser with brass pins I assume it will look just as good just make sure to place the pins in a "pleasing to the eye position"
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  #15  
Old 08-02-2016, 01:29 PM
damon damon is offline
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ive worked with one VG10 blade, and you WILL NEED carbide drill bits if you intend on drilling a hole anywhere in the tang. VG10 is some seriously hard stuff.

another note... you seem to have the impression that all steels need to be annealed (softened) before you work with them. a lot of steels (for blades or otherwise) come in annealed state unless youre ordering spring hardened special parts... if the materials a place is producing is being sold to be machined, or worked, then it makes more sense that be in its easiest to work with state.
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