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Heat Treating and Metallurgy Discussion of heat treatment and metallurgy in knife making.

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  #1  
Old 07-08-2004, 08:18 PM
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rhrocker rhrocker is offline
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My Lindberg HT furnace

Here's a picture of my old Lindberg. Not sure of the year built, but it's a model 59544. Has a sealed tube with it, for an inert gas, but I don't have any info on using that feature. I've used this thing several times now, with good results, there's no ramping so to speak, just set the temp, and go from there. When done, turn it off. I think it goes to 2,400+, but I'll never need to take it that high. Will be good for tempering also, although spendy seeing as how I could use a walmart toaster oven with a oven thermometer. The Lindberg didn't have a temp read-out, so you can see the one I've added, it's the one I use in my forge, with a thermowell (in the gas forge, not in the elect. furnace). Anyone else have one of these things, maybe can give me some tips, etc? Pretty straight forward I guess. Heat it up, cook the steel, shut it down. You can see one of my oil quench tanks nearby also, but I like edge quenching in a shallow pan more often than not. As I mentioned in another thread, I've been using Brownells PBC for anit-scaling. Haven't tired Turco yet.


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Old 07-08-2004, 08:22 PM
fitzo fitzo is offline
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How did the observed temps with the new pyormeter and thermocouple match the setpoints, Robert?
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Old 07-08-2004, 09:36 PM
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They were off some Fitz, I made notes, and will go with the pyro. Good to hear fom you!


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Old 07-08-2004, 09:46 PM
Darren Ellis Darren Ellis is offline
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Hi Robert, that looks similar to an old vacuum tube furnace I used for generation of endohedral metalofullerenes and other novel nanoscale materials. You wouldn't happen to have an Nd-Yag laser sitting around do you, we can get you hooked up doing some pulsed laser deposition experimental physics work! You could make a pretty good living making and selling purified C60 and higher fullerenes!

-Darren


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Old 07-08-2004, 10:26 PM
Gary Hamilton Gary Hamilton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren Ellis
...that looks similar to an old vacuum tube furnace I used for generation of endohedral metalofullerenes and other novel nanoscale materials...
-Darren
Well now I really feel dumb. I had not idea what "endohedral metallofullerenes" was. So I googled and I STILL do not know what it is and as a matter of fact I did not know what most of the words were in the abstract. Thanks Darren, now I have something to do tonight.


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Old 07-08-2004, 11:39 PM
Darren Ellis Darren Ellis is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Hamilton
Well now I really feel dumb. I had not idea what "endohedral metallofullerenes" was. So I googled and I STILL do not know what it is and as a matter of fact I did not know what most of the words were in the abstract. Thanks Darren, now I have something to do tonight.
Warning: non-knife related content.

Don't let all the technical jargon get to you... All they are are C60 molecules with metal atoms captured inside of them so to speak. You take 60 carbon atoms and arrange them into a truncated icosahedron configuration (much like a soccer ball shape) and that gives you C60 or Buckministerfullerene. If you dope a carbon pellet with the right concentration of certain metal atoms and then hit it with a high power laser in a vacuum tube furnace at high temperatures and collect the resultant residue, you'll get a spectrum of fullerene molecules (C60, C70, C84, etc...) and if the conditions were right, you'll get some with the metal atoms trapped inside the carbon cage of the truncated icosahedron. There are other ways to make them, but I did a lot of work in pulsed laser deposition a few years ago....and hence, used a vacuum tube furnace for some of the work much like what Robert showed above. Fullerenes and their kin, carbon nanotubes, are all the rage these days in nanotech research fields. Interesting side-note...some guys (Smalley, Kroto, et al.) were awarded the nobel prize for discovering C60 back in 1985 (I think that was the year)... but my research professor had actually seen them in some time of flight mass spectrometry experiments he had done some 10 years or so earlier...but never published it...if only he had, maybe he would have been on the list too... I guess sometimes serendipity rules...

Knife-related content:

That's a nice furnace Robert, and with the calibration offset you've established it should be quite useful. If you wanted to set it up so it would have the capability for ramp rates and soak times you could always retrofit it with a PID or fuzzy logic type controller and make it even more useful!

-Darren


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Old 07-09-2004, 07:21 AM
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Darren said: " If you wanted to set it up so it would have the capability for ramp rates and soak times you could always retrofit it with a PID or fuzzy logic type controller and make it even more useful! "

I've thought about that, and in fact, Fitz told me of a unit sold by Paragon, that may be just the ticket. However, the cost of the programmers, etc, is al most what the cost of a nice new Evenheat is, so that's a consideration. If I try to use Argon in the tube (as opposed to vacumn), is it a constant purge Darren? I obviously couldn't be sealed shut, with the Argon inside, because of expansion, I figure it would be a constant flow of a couple of regulated pounds of pressure, but I'm not sure. As to you're other offer "You wouldn't happen to have an Nd-Yag laser sitting around do you, we can get you hooked up doing some pulsed laser deposition experimental physics work!", yes, I have four of those, but not ready to unpack them quite yet )


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Old 07-09-2004, 09:37 AM
Darren Ellis Darren Ellis is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhrocker
Darren said: " If you wanted to set it up so it would have the capability for ramp rates and soak times you could always retrofit it with a PID or fuzzy logic type controller and make it even more useful! "

I've thought about that, and in fact, Fitz told me of a unit sold by Paragon, that may be just the ticket. However, the cost of the programmers, etc, is al most what the cost of a nice new Evenheat is, so that's a consideration.

Hi Robert, I'd look around, I bet there are others out there that are at a better price point than the one from Paragon...

Quote:
If I try to use Argon in the tube (as opposed to vacumn), is it a constant purge Darren?
yes, if you have a flow meter you can experiment to determine optimum flow without wasting gas, but in a pinch, a needle valve will do too.


Quote:
As to you're other offer "You wouldn't happen to have an Nd-Yag laser sitting around do you, we can get you hooked up doing some pulsed laser deposition experimental physics work!", yes, I have four of those, but not ready to unpack them quite yet )
Jeez, you're kidding right!? Probably not, knowing you! Where in the world do you get this stuff? Do you know how much those are worth!?

-Darren


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  #9  
Old 07-09-2004, 10:48 AM
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Darren, yes, I was teasing )


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Old 07-09-2004, 11:40 AM
fitzo fitzo is offline
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The benefit of the Paragon controller is that it is plug-and-play. It is self-contained. You plug the power from the furnace into the controller, insert the controller thermocouple ( may need a new hole), turn the existing furnace controller all the way up, and then run off the new digi controller. The thing I like about the Paragon digicontrol is that it can be a full keypad instead of those agrravating two-key scroll controllers. I'll always like direct entry.

That said, I think in this case Robert, given the cost due to the large-amperage furnaces you have, I agree that it would be of most benefit to spring the little difference and just get a new Evenheat. Even if it doesn't have the multi-key controller. They're nice units; I like mine. (I'd like my Paragon better than the Evenheat if it was digital, though!)



OT, so, these guys got a Nobel for playing with their Bucky-balls?? Sorry, somebody had to say it.....
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  #11  
Old 07-09-2004, 12:18 PM
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Jeff Higgins Jeff Higgins is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhrocker
However, the cost of the programmers, etc, is al most what the cost of a nice new Evenheat is, so that's a consideration.
Hey Robert, McMaster-Carr has a PID Fuzzy-Logic controller for $135.79, item #7981K81 or 7981K82, depending if you want a relay control output or a solid state relay voltage output.

If you need to talk to your Missus about getting another oven, just tell her, "But Honey! Jeff Higgins just bought a new Paragon KM-14D! Can I get one too?"

hehehee! Its a sweet oven. Costly, but sweet. Heck they are made in Texas... you should just drive up and get one.


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Old 07-09-2004, 12:25 PM
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Thanks Mike, and Jeff, Carrie's going to kill the both of us. YOU for getting me into all of this mess by suggestion tools that knifemakers just have to have, and ME because I let you. May be your wife and mine going to the Caymons.


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Old 12-08-2017, 05:50 AM
Nazzar Nazzar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Hamilton View Post
Well now I really feel dumb. I had not idea what "endohedral metallofullerenes" was. So I googled and I STILL do not know what it is and as a matter of fact I did not know what most of the words were in the abstract. Thanks Darren, now I have something to do tonight.
If you wanna some more info about endohedral fullerene molecules (and other nano materials in general), you should try this site. It is full of very interesting info. By the way, did you know that they find a carbon nanotubes in old damascus steel? It was the reason the blade was so strong.
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Old 12-08-2017, 01:42 PM
samuraistuart samuraistuart is offline
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A thread from 2004, and your first post.
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