Help please.

[Kevster]

On this blade I decided I'm going to do a swedge taper on the top, does the sharpie mark for the edge profile look ok or is it too high? The blade is 1 1/2 and I marked in front of where the bolster is going at 7/8.



Thanks

[ricky_arthur]

Is your blade about 3/32? Seems like it was about that thick from the other pics you posted. If it were me, I would take it further than that. That seems to fall in the no mans land between a scandi grind and a flat grind. If it was me I would do a near full flat grind.

Or grind it that far and file in the swedge and decide if you like it. You can always grind more, but never less. Ha

[Doug Lester]

I'm with Ricky, I'd take the primary bevel all the way up to the swage.

Doug

[Kevster]

So keep the same curve just take the mark I made at 7/8 and go, say 1 1/8? I kinda messed up on the swedge ( or is it swage? ) so I'm going to have to file it straight.

[Kevster]

Originally Posted by ricky_arthur

Is your blade about 3/32? Seems like it was about that thick from the other pics you posted. If it were me, I would take it further than that. That seems to fall in the no mans land between a scandi grind and a flat grind. If it was me I would do a near full flat grind.

Or grind it that far and file in the swedge and decide if you like it. You can always grind more, but never less. Ha

The blade is 3/16

[ricky_arthur]

Originally Posted by Kevster

The blade is 3/16

Duh, Thats what I Meant, I was thinking 5/32 or 3/16 and combined the 2.

If you do a full flat grind you will not need to make a line because the spine is your line. However. DO NOT Grind all the way into the spine.

Here watch this, It is the vid that I used to learn to flat grind.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1C0spGxmggE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1C0spGxmggE

[NorCal Nate]

Boy that video answered alot of questions for me. Thanks Ricky Arther!!

[Kevster]

Well, I set that knife down and cut a new blade out and got busy shaping and grinding today, I just wasn't happy with the other one with the so called swedge.

Here's the new one.







I really like this one, I'm going to drill my pin holes and off to heat treat she goes.

[ricky_arthur]

That one looks good. You really have the vine pattern down. If you want my advice, I would say to go back to the other knife, and do the grind on it. Even if it's just for practice. Cut in a Ricasso and do a full flat grind on it.

[Kevster]

Originally Posted by ricky_arthur

That one looks good. You really have the vine pattern down. If you want my advice, I would say to go back to the other knife, and do the grind on it. Even if it's just for practice. Cut in a Ricasso and do a full flat grind on it.

I'm going to do some practice on the other one for sure, I'm just not sure if my grinder will give me the sharp line that I want.

My grinder is like this one and I tried getting a sharp ricasso and either I need more practice or this grinder is just not designed to do them.

[Doug Lester]

I know a Master Knifesmith who earned both is Journeyman's and Master's stamp with two of those so, yes, it can cut a good plunge line. You might try a filing jig. One made of a carbide material is a little pricey but can be had, if I remember right, from the Riverside Machine Shop. You could also get one from someplace like Jantz or USA Knife Maker Supply and epoxy some carbide blanks to the face with something like JB Weld. Then practice, practice, practice.

Doug

[Kevster]

Originally Posted by Doug Lester

I know a Master Knifesmith who earned both is Journeyman's and Master's stamp with two of those so, yes, it can cut a good plunge line. You might try a filing jig. One made of a carbide material is a little pricey but can be had, if I remember right, from the Riverside Machine Shop. You could also get one from someplace like Jantz or USA Knife Maker Supply and epoxy some carbide blanks to the face with something like JB Weld. Then practice, practice, practice.

Doug

good idea! Thanks!

[ricky_arthur]

Kevster, That one is set up nearly identical to what I'm using. I have sold enough knives that I also have a Coote grinder on it's way. Belive me your machine will do flat grind just fine.

Try this. When I start out a flat grind, I do the first few passes with an old belt at a slightly exaggerated angle to get the cut started. The first few cuts have the belt hitting a sharp edge at about 90Deg. so that.s why I use an old belt.

Then I switch to a new-or newer belt. I don't worry about the plunge line or ricasso so much until my bevel gets about 1/3 of the way up the blade. I just make sure my cuts are starting in front of where the ricasso will start. The reason for this is that you cannot really control the plunge cut until you have enough bevel that you can feel the belt and the bevel settle into/onto each other. That is hard to explain but you will know when you feel it.

One thing that helped me immensely was to cut a small Choil

In this PIC, It is the small cut where the plunge meets the edge and just below the serrations. (ignore those it was my first attempt at serrations.)
This has a very small one and they probably look a little better if they are cut a tad wider and more rounded, but you get the point. It would be hard to over state how much this little cut helped me to keep track of the ricasso. I no longer need it, but it definitely helps.



What this does, Is, It becomes a little window to be able to see where the belt is. first I make sure my cut starts about but not quite on the tip side of the cut. Once my grind is about 1/3 done, I make a few passes with the ricasso as the focus. I want to bump the plunge back to start about where that cut starts on the tip side of the cut. As the grind works it's way up the blade each pass, every few passes I will refine the plunge and ricasso by allowing the belt to bump it back just a little. Keeping an eye on it's angle and depth etc. It doesn't take much to bump it back so be careful. My goal is to be at the back or handle side of the choil cut by the time the grind is complete. If you look back at the picture, That grind is nearly there. I have just enough left to square the ricasso angle to the blade and it will be perfect.

That is a little trick I stumbled on that helped me a bunch.

Ricky

ETA also you can make a filing jig very easy, when I get home I'll take a pic of one I made in about 20 minutes for about 2 bucks, not counting time to heat treat it. I only use it to square up the shoulders for hidden tang knifes but it could also be used to square a ricasso.

[Kevster]

Originally Posted by ricky_arthur

Kevster, That one is set up nearly identical to what I'm using. I have sold enough knives that I also have a Coote grinder on it's way. Belive me your machine will do flat grind just fine.

Try this. When I start out a flat grind, I do the first few passes with an old belt at a slightly exaggerated angle to get the cut started. The first few cuts have the belt hitting a sharp edge at about 90Deg. so that.s why I use an old belt.

Then I switch to a new-or newer belt. I don't worry about the plunge line or ricasso so much until my bevel gets about 1/3 of the way up the blade. I just make sure my cuts are starting in front of where the ricasso will start. The reason for this is that you cannot really control the plunge cut until you have enough bevel that you can feel the belt and the bevel settle into/onto each other. That is hard to explain but you will know when you feel it.

One thing that helped me immensely was to cut a small Choil

This has a very small one and they probably look a little better if they are cut a tad wider and more rounded, but you get the point. It would be hard to over state how much this little cut helped me to keep track of the ricasso. I no longer need it, but it definitely helps.



What this does, Is, It becomes a little window to be able to see where the belt is. first I make sure my cut starts about but not quite on the tip side of the cut. Once my grind is about 1/3 done, I make a few passes with the ricasso as the focus. I want to bump the plunge back to start about where that cut starts on the tip side of the cut. As the grind works it's way up the blade each pass, every few passes I will refine the plunge and ricasso by allowing the belt to bump it back just a little. Keeping an eye on it's angle and depth etc. It doesn't take much to bump it back so be careful. My goal is to be at the back or handle side of the choil cut by the time the grind is complete. If you look back at the picture, That grind is nearly there. I have just enough left to square the ricasso angle to the blade and it will be perfect.

That is a little trick I stumbled on that helped me a bunch.

Ricky

ETA also you can make a filing jig very easy, when I get home I'll take a pic of one I made in about 20 minutes for about 2 bucks, not counting time to heat treat it. I only use it to square up the shoulders for hidden tang knifes but it could also be used to square a ricasso.

Thanks Ricky, I can see how the choil would help, as far as the original blade I started on goes, I'm going to grind out the swedge and do a upward swoop to the tip, I might even try to take the vine pattern all the way to the tip.I ordered some more steel in 1/8 so I will try the riccoso when it gets here.

[Gary Mulkey]

Originally Posted by Kevster

I'm going to do some practice on the other one for sure, I'm just not sure if my grinder will give me the sharp line that I want.

My grinder is like this one and I tried getting a sharp ricasso and either I need more practice or this grinder is just not designed to do them.

Many of us either use or have used this grinder. Something that you will find that will make it easier to use is to add something to the platen to stiffen it. As is from the factory it has a little too much give for heavy grinding. If you add a 1/4" piece of steel to it and round over the edges (which will make your plunge cut easier) I think you will like it.

Gary