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  #46  
Old 01-27-2004, 10:09 PM
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Chris Daigle Chris Daigle is offline
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  #47  
Old 01-27-2004, 11:32 PM
Hawk Hawk is offline
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I cannot believe this is still going on! While you all have been dragging my integraty through the dirt I have been in my shop working on some knives for my friends wedding, you know what? They are SG4's, yikes I used kit blades, I am sure the world will end now. Do you know why I did this? It is because it is what my friend wanted to give his groomsmen as gifts, it is that simple!

Why the huge discussion over this? I stated that I bought a blade and then tried to copy it, so what! Do any of you see my name stamped on that blade? Nope, and do you know why? It is because I have not made a knife I consider worthy of my name, and yup I "put handles on SG4's" and I tell each customer that they are buying a design by Darrel Ralph that I customized.

Folks let this go and go about the business of making knives, and sharing information, that is the intent of this forum as far as I can tell. Sure I got my feeling hurt when I was attacked and I am sure that some would run after this onslaught, but not me, critisize all you want, poke holes all you want. I know what I did and what I do and that is enough for me to live with.

Know lets get back to talking about knives and put this behind us.

BTW I will post pics of the groomsmen knives in the next few days in the kit knives forum after I finish the sheaths. Feel free to come and look and tell me how I am a horses a$$ for using these kits.

Regards,
John
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  #48  
Old 01-28-2004, 05:34 AM
Duncan Duncan is offline
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John, For what it's worth I believe you have what it takes to be a fine knife maker. Not many new guys would still be around after the bashing you've taken over the last few days. This shows me you have a burning desire to become a blade smith and be recognized among the knife making community. Please remember the reason we post pictures on CKD is so other makers and collectors can look and critique our work.We must all be ready to get both the good and ugly if we want to better our knife making
abilities.
I've been making knives for several years now and to this day the guy that taught me still points out my shortcomings every time I show him a new knife. I personally think a true Master of any craft will always point out things that he thinks you need improvement on and then suggest a way to fix it. It does little good if everyone only praises a persons work. We all need a little constructive criticism every once in awhile to help us become better at what we do. Keeps our hears from getting to big to.
Just my two cents worth here John , that and $1.50 will almost get you a cup of coffee. LOL Now make some knives and post them so we can put this thread to bed. Good Luck!!


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Last edited by Duncan; 01-28-2004 at 05:51 AM.
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  #49  
Old 01-28-2004, 06:32 AM
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John,

You show me a man who hasn't copied a blade, and I'll show you a man who isn't a knife maker yet.

Sure, a lot of readers will swell up when they read what I just said, but no one will come in here and deny that they have ever done it, if they've been around the industry developing their skill for a while. Why? Because that's how you learn, we all learn. There's nothing at all wrong with it, as long as you don't misrepresent anything, lie, cheat or steal. Learning has a starting point, and that is "learning what is already known!"

You know what else? Many makers won't chime in on this argument, but I know of present day maker's who sit around and wait for the big name designers to launch new designs, then immediatly copy the style and only modify it with slight variations and call it their own. If you ask me, this is a far worse crime than copying a blade pattern to learn how to make it.

Keep it up, and keep your head above the mire. I like what you did. You made it so close that it pissed people off ... now, that's something to note from a beginner, in my opinion!

Alex


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  #50  
Old 01-28-2004, 09:47 AM
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John,

I WAS NOT calling you a horses arse, I was joking with my friend Romey. He's a cowboy in Montana, and I was spoofing him. We are regulars on Paltalk, and I conversed with Wild Rose the night before. I was JOKING with them. Laying in bed last night I realized that was gonna be misinterpreted, the frailty of what I meant versus how it sounded.

I sincerely apologize if you thought I was talking about you, and I mean that. If you read my posts on these threads, I have neither criticized nor defended you. In all honesty, what you do I could really care less about in terms of knifemaking. Like Alex said, we've all "copied" designs and used design antecedents from others' work. It's natural, we see the stuff and remember it somewhere deep inside, if nothing else. I've defended others for it, so I'm not about to criticize you for copying a blade.

Once again, I wasn't talking to you or about you. Apologies are tendered.

Last edited by fitzo; 01-28-2004 at 09:58 AM.
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  #51  
Old 01-28-2004, 11:10 AM
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Poor horse, we ought blame his arse ... but, poor poor horse

Sorry guys, I couldn't help it ehehhe...

Now that everything is ok, misreading was explained, apologies given and taken ... what do you say we let the thread die?

I am afraid the horse will not take much you know... :cool: :cool:


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  #52  
Old 01-28-2004, 11:17 AM
Hawk Hawk is offline
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Mike,

As I stated in my PM back to you, I was not directing anything towads you or anyone else. It was a general statement.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

John
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  #53  
Old 01-28-2004, 11:35 AM
fitzo fitzo is offline
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Thanks, John, I'm glad we weren't at odds, you've had enough flak. I didn't want to add to it.....

Periodically a thread comes up wherein it helps us understand how to properly conduct ourselves as a group on this forum. This is one of those, and the reason why the thread didn't just die away. In a way it is a testament to the integrity we expect of each other here, and why I like this forum above all others.

There is a saying in American, Jeff, about "not beating a dead horse". I think you and John are quite right, the time is come. Adieu.....
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  #54  
Old 01-28-2004, 11:38 AM
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Hi, my name is Jerid and I copied 2 kinfe designs from TKS.

Everybody has copied blades designs. My first 2 knives were copies. I printed the pictures of knives I liked from TKS website and cut out the paper template. It gave me an idea how to proportionally size a knife. Since then, I have seen blades I like and have made similar renditions with my own special touches. Unless you are really into the "fantasy" thing I think it would be very hard to come up with a completly unique design.

Reading Hawk's initial post I do not feel he was being DVS in any way. I actually have to commend him for doing such a nice job.

Hawk,
I would love to see a pic of your grinder. It might be something I could build for my shop without too much cash outlay. Please post a pic over in Tool Time... if you don't mind.

I look forword to seeing more knice work out of you.

Cheers,
Jerid
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  #55  
Old 01-28-2004, 03:00 PM
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Jerid ... man that is funny!

"Hi, my name is Joe Knifemaker and I've copied my way to the top!"

Alex


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  #56  
Old 01-28-2004, 03:27 PM
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Ok so what you have a problem with my horse now?????? HAHA
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  #57  
Old 01-28-2004, 03:39 PM
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Chuck Burrows Chuck Burrows is offline
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Hey Romey - you must have been reading my mind - I was going to say the same thing (or is that copying???:confused: - bad Chuck Bad!) I like Horses!

As for "cowboy logic" - well LMAO - if cowboys really had logic they wouldn't be cowboys now would they .... they'd be working inside in front of a nice warm fire instead of pulling cows out of mudholes 8o

BTW where at in the Big Sky country are you? Linda and I want to get back north so bad we can taste it.


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  #58  
Old 01-29-2004, 04:25 AM
Steinroehder Steinroehder is offline
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Just a little idea...

Hmm, it will not be long before I post my first work here.

To show you what I've been doing, I'll include pictures
of the working steps. That's got many positive aspects,
not only for the viewer, but also for me. I have documented
everything I've done so far with my digicam, so I can

- show you what I did
- get comments on how to improve my steps
- see by myself where I made mistakes
- if it's good, prolly help other new aspiring makers
- generally brag about how much work it was

So, Hawk, maybe you do this too next time? Not to
prove your righteousness, which I don't doubt, but
rather to show us how you managed to get such
a perfect design... and so flawless grind lines... with
so basic tooling. I'd think it would be a nice sort of
mini-tutorial that I'd really like to read... and the
questioning of your skills wouldn't have happened
in the first place. I know that you can't expect people
to post the whole history of their knife anytime they
want to show it here, but when copying an existing
design, it would help a great deal to add credibility
and would serve as a good source of information at
the same time... for example with my new knife, I
added a 'blood groove', and you wouldn't expect that
to be possible without a grinder... but I used a file.
I guess some new folks here could use my tips on how
to do it

Anyhow, I like the very clean look of your tanto, and
also the nice, sharp grind lines. As I use only files myself,
I can tell you must have used up a few gallons of elbow
grease on that one

Cheers,

Georg
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  #59  
Old 01-29-2004, 10:41 PM
NewBlade NewBlade is offline
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Newbie Jitters

I have a few pieces of steel, several files, a 4x36 belt unit, a pencil, a little skill, and a lot of desire. No blades yet, but I do have a basket full of crumpled paper. I can only hope that when I produce something worth showing off, it doesn't resemble an idea that is already out there somewhere. Critics: please remember that we neophytes might create sililarities without intent. I haven't seen everything yet to know what should be avoided. Bring on the constructive criticism. Thanks, Ron.


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  #60  
Old 01-30-2004, 04:35 AM
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Look guys. You are all getting off on a tangent. You are going to end up believing and spreading something that is not true

There is nothing wrong with with reproducing a "style" of blade. Skinner, bowie, tanto, ect..... It is wrong to claim to have invented this style.

There is nothing wrong with buying a kit and finishing it to the best of your ability.It is wrong to claim to have made the knife totally by yourself

There is nothing wrong with picking a famous makers knife and trying to copy it in every detail as close as you can possibly come.
It is wrong to claim to have come up with the paticular blade, handle, and matieral choices and not give credit to the original maker.

Please, don't think you have to try and re- invent the wheel evertime you make a knife. If you do, you are doomed to fail.


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