What happened to this forum?

[Don Robinson]

I used to enjoy the interaction in this forum. It was my favorite on the internet. I enjoyed helping people when I could, even enjoyed differing in opinions and methods with Ray Rogers.

Recently it's just about gone away.

Come on back, guys. I'm still here.

[McAhron]

I have been forging fixed blades for about a year and a half and am now getting tooling for folders.I have all the reccomended books.i would realy like to hear what you think are the neccesary tools in order of importance.I too enjoy this forum and hope to see more action.Thanks .Mcahron

[Ray Rogers]

I'm still here Don, and I agree it's been slow around here recently.

McAhron:

You'll end up with a pretty good assortment of drills and reams, depending on they type of folders you decide to make. No new power tools are absolutely required over and above those generally used for fixed blade knives. A mill and a surface grinder will considerably expand the possibilities in your folder making and I think you would find them in the shops of any folder maker who has been making folders for any serious length of time, regardless of the type of folders they might make. Aside from those, you'll probably build a few fixtures according to your needs as you go along.

There is more that CAN be done like using CAD software and even CNC if you have access to it but none of that is required to build great folders........

[McAhron]

thanks Ray.Im getting the harbor freight mini mill at the next super sale.What do you think of the Grizzly 6" height gauge and precision granite anvil for scribing lines,do you have a better suggestion.Should i order a digital or manual caliper.Will the grizzly 4" precision vice work on the mini mill or should i get a threee inch from the Little Machine Shop.Thanks

[Frank Niro]

Hello
Well, it seems to be everywhere in the knife world and that is a big slow back . If the sales aren't there, then the makers aren't making and if the makers aren't making they don't have questioins to ask or finished knives to talk about. Knife sales are slow for most everyone without a "known name" and I don't believe we will see a fast turn around. Even many of the known makers seem to be trying areas of sale that are less expesive for buyers. I believe some of this is an effort to maintain a certyain volume of sales, and certainly can be a helping hand for them and an new area where buyers may obtain less costly named made knives, regardless of the less complexity in the making or cost of the materials. The number of makers seems to be increasing faster than the number of buyers. There are mega dealers and many times that in maker web sites. The knife market place has become a very competative area to compete in. I have been told that there are many full time makers going to part time in order to maintain a living standard by finding full time employment in other areas. I have also had conversations where buyers, are saying that with some much being made why aren't prices coming down, or in other words they are more reluctant to buy anything but believe they should wait until a visible change can be seen at least by them. I do believe that there has already been a noticeable downward movement of prices and for some that have not really establish their position in the market place as far as their selling prices should be and are not ready to accept this will of course see their sales become less. Well, as you have probably noticed, I have been perhaps just a little more involved with this forum than usual. I sure want to help it continue and as we know, participation as Don has asked for is in my opinion the way to go. Frank

[Don Robinson]

[QUOTE=McAhron]thanks Ray.Im getting the harbor freight mini mill at the next super sale.What do you think of the Grizzly 6" height gauge and precision granite anvil for scribing lines,do you have a better suggestion.Should i order a digital or manual caliper.Will the grizzly 4" precision vice work on the mini mill or should i get a threee inch from the Little Machine Shop.Thanks [/QUOTE

Now that's more like it, fellows. Thanks to Ray and Frank for the input.

In answer to your questions, McAhron, since you are getting the mini mill, you'll do well to get one or more of my books available on my web site. Ray's tutorials and other tutorials will be helpful. The difference in "MY Way" and the others is that the methods differ. To each his own, huh?

I have a granite surface plate and digital height gage, but never use them. Put a scriber with a 90 degree point on it in your mill chuck and use the graduations on the machine to do the same thing.

Get a $15 6" digital caliper from Enco. Most any vise will do, as long as it can be fastened down when necessary. The main thing is to have the jaws perpendicular to the mill table, and it's nice to have a flat ground surface that is parallel to the bottom of the vise behind the jaws.

Frank, I'm not affected by market variations. I make knives because it gives me great pleasure. I don't do shows, too far away, too expensive for that reason, too much work to do, etc., but the main reason is that I don't rely on anyone else, an organization, dealers, or anything else to make knives. I do my own thing and it makes me happy. All my knives sell sooner or later, and I enjoy custom orders with strange and new ideas. You ought to see one I'm currently working on.

And, I also get lots of pleasure from helping others learn, or by suggesting new ways and ideas.

[Ray Rogers]

I'd go with Don's advice on the caliper. I've had a $20 Chinese model and currently use a $170 Starret model which is definitely nicer but no practical difference for what we do. Definitely a dial, not electronic.

Ditto on the vise. I don't use my vise much though, only for certain operations. For most things i use a milling plate. That's nothing but a 1" thick aluminum plate that is bolted to my milling table. It's big enough for any knife parts i use to fit easily on top. The plate has rows of evenly spaced 12-32 holes drilled in it. I made some simple small clamps from aluminum to use with the milling plate. Now, parts can be secured quickly with small clamps that don't get in the way, in any orientation. If I mess up and hit a clamp or the plate, no harm done - it's easy to repair or replace (which isn't true of the mill's table).

For edge scribing, I like a regular $20 brass scribe that I got from one of the knife supply houses. They are easy to make if you'd rather make one. It has an adjustable carbide tip, I use that along with a set of cheap automotive feeler gauges to set it. For me, it's faster, simpler, and more flexible than the granite plate approach. I can't think of anything else that I use a scribe for. To paraphrase Don, different strokes for different folks......

[McAhron]

Awsome feed back guys.I was going to build a milling plate,got the idea out of terzoulas(spelling) book and thought it was a great idea.Thank you both for saving me the 80 bucks(shipped) it would have cost for height gauge and surface plate.I will also appreciate the caliper suggestion,i was hoping i wouldnt have to blow 70-80 bucks on one.Is there some kind of list available that shows what size drill bits,tappers,couterbores and reamers to use with different sized screws that i could hang on my wall for easy accessiblity.I was also wondering if the hand tapper machine from grizzly will prevent tapps from breaking or if its a waist of money and would be better to save up for a tapmatic.Double thanks again.

[Don Robinson]

You can get a tap and drill chart from Enco, MSC, or your local machine shop supply Co.

The hand tapper will do fine. So will a Tapmatic. I don't use either. I prefer to put a 60 degree center point made out of hardenened drill rod into the mill chuck and use the center to keep a t-handle tap wrench aligned as I tap by turning the tap wrench by hand. Costs nothing.

The main thing with taps for knifemaking is to use only a SPIRAL POINT tap. Two or 3 flute. The spiral point drives the chips ahead, instead of having to exit by climbing the tap flute. Any other type of tap breaks easily because the chips tangle up on the tap.

You'll need a set of fractional, number, and letter drills to cover everything. Reamers to suit.

You can send Ray and myself 10% of the money we'll keep you from wasting. :cool:

[Frank Niro]

Hi Don,
Yes, I make only folders and am able to make only what I want, with certain limitations . I do not take custom orders. I am total committed but in this manner am able to avoid what would be a stress situation. The idea that perhaps under such a situation I would not want to extend myself, or that repeation is what I do is quite the opposite to what I go for. As far as the selling part is concerned, I am most fortunate to have a close friend who like me, does not require the very small commission funds he receives from the sales of my folders. He to is totally involved . I am most fortunate to be in this position. My work has advanced to a point far beyond where I had only hoped I would get to. Don't get me wrong here. What I'm saying is I can enjoy it all, but mostly other peoples work more than my own. I too like you Don and you Ray, enjoy helping others. I have had a great return of thanks from those I have helped in my shop, but still find it a great thing to also try to help on line. And boy isn't it true, that it's what works for you and if one way doesn't perhaps another will? I sure enjoy the participation from the both of you. Frank

[Don Robinson]

Thanks, Frank. Now we have at least 3 knifemakers here willing to help anyone. Good deal.

[Brett Schaller]

Micro Mark tools has a new tapping fixture in their latest catalog, priced at about $45. I might give it a try. The one that's always on sale at MSC isn't recommended for the small size taps we use.

I've only done a limited amount of work on folders lately - trying a few new models - because every order I have now is for fixed blades. I certainly won't turn down the sales, but I prefer working on folders.

[Ray Rogers]

Good idea, Don! I knew there had to be some way to make money off of this forum!

As for the tapper, I have a hand tapper that I built myself which works very well for me. I also have a piloted tapper like Don's that uses the drill press to suport it and that also works very well. Finally, I own a Tap-Matic too but never use it on folders. The Tap-Matic is a great labor saver for making those nilling plates where you are tapping 20 holes each an inch deep in aluminum but it is overkill on a thin piece of titanium. It takes a while to get the Tap-Matic set up too and I can have the holes tapped in less time if I do them by hand. Bottom line on tappers, most anything works as long as it supports the tap perpendicular to the table. The rest of the technique to avoid breaking taps is simply drilling the correct hole sizes, especially in titanium, and using the correct taps as Don specified. Using a lubricant makes a huge difference when tapping titanium and will greatly aid in avoiding tap breakage.

Get that drill chart like Don said, about $3 from MSC. Use the chart and your new $20 caliper to figure out what size holes to drill for whatever screws you decide to use. For tapping titanium, take the chart's recommended pilot hole size and increase it by at least one step.....

[Don Robinson]

Originally Posted by Brett Schaller

.

I've only done a limited amount of work on folders lately - trying a few new models - because every order I have now is for fixed blades. I certainly won't turn down the sales, but I prefer working on folders.

Long time no see, Brett. Now let's see some new folders. A guy's gotta do what he likes once in awhile.

[Don Robinson]

I'd like to reinforce Ray's advise about using the next larger size drill when tapping titanium. Ti likes to move around and weld to a tap or drill, and it's so strong that using a larger drill won't affect the strength of the threaded connection. The screw threads will strip before the Ti does. Also a good tapping fluid is important. Never use lubricating oil.

Ray, my friend, you and I are in perfect sync somehow. This is the longest we've ever spent without a disagreement.