Grinder, KMG or No-Weld?

[Hayden H]

I'm looking into buying a bigger, more powerful grinder. I've narrowed it down to the KMG and No-Weld. I want yalls honest opinion on which is the best, tracking, overall wear, and cost. I want to know whihc would be best?
The No-Weld would all be built by me, I'd order wheels from Beaumont if I built one. I estimated my total cost at around $800-$1,000 to build a No-Weld.
The KMG comes assemlbed, and I'd probably order the KMG 10, with a small wheel attatchment.

[Ed Caffrey]

You can certainly make the NWG work, but my choice would be the KMG. As you said, it comes complete, and all you have to do is mount a pulley and a motor.

I've now built several machines based on the GIB grinder....it's a LOT of work to get them "right". With each successive one I've built, I've made modifications and adjustments along the way.....if you want to avoid the "eternal tinkering" get the KMG and then all you have to do is use it....not work on it.

[cdent]

I think it's smart to build your own with top quality components. I believe you're running into what I did. If (?) the KMG costs more, it's well worth the beefiness (no tubing), R&D and time savings. At near a thousand dollars, your no-weld cost estimate is honest and worth considering if it's a true value for your situation. Unless you really need the small wheel attachment, get the KMG 10 with an extra tooling arm.

Best of luck, Craig

[Hayden H]

I'd like the small wheel to do intricate curves on things. Such as finger grooves, and gaurd work where a small surface is kind of needed. But I can use a flap wheel on a hand grinder, or break out the file box. To do those two specific tasks. Or one of my little 1 by 30's. That can be bogged down with a pencil.
Orignally I wanted the No Weld so I could make and sell them to beginners in my area. Plus that money'd go to finding me a bigger shop than my 10 by 20 mini-barn. I just don't wanna put all my time and effort into something then have to calibrate it everytime I use it.
And noise is a problem. I need something quieter, to keep my sanity intact, as well as my hearing.

[ron58]

i was going to build my own and when i got done adding up the time and parts it was over what a kmg was going to cost me,so i bought the kmg and with in a hour after it got here i was using it!and i love it,and i think you will to.

[10es&]

IMO, the KMG is the way to go. I doubt you will ever find a maker who regrets buying one.

If you have access to machining equipment there are some great plans to build a KMG clone. This is what I did and I love it. I made every single component except the bearings and saved a few hundred bucks and enjoyed making it.

In regards to your questions best, tracking, overall wear, and cost.

Tracking will probably go to the KMG since it is a well refined machine that has been on the market for a while, but that is not to say that your machine built would not be more precise if you take the time and have the equipment...

Overall wear would be the same on all of the machines especially if you are buying your wheels from Beaumont. The only exception would be if your home-built machines? drive,tracking and tooling is not perfectly in line, then you will likely see some premature bearing wear but the bearing are cheap to replace.

Cost will depend on your build, without a doubt the cheapest option would be a No-weld.

There is one more option that you might consider, Tracy at USA Knife maker sells a ?No-Weld? prebuilt frame.
Ironically it is welded and the last time I seen it the cost was around $300.

Brett

[Hayden H]

If I did build a No-Weld I'd built it in my welding class. Because I know if I built one, I'd end up building atleast 2 more. I have access to shops full of equipment, but I'd rather not fool around with balancing a wheel.
I like the KMG, when I have my money saved up, I'm gonna see if they can make a custom flat platen. With a 1 1/2 inch contact wheel at the bottom, and a 2-3 inch contact wheel at the top. That can spin to be used as a flat platen, a 3 inch contact wheel for profiling, and 1 1/2 inch wheel for profiling, or grooving. Thats just an idea for now, I know I'll buy the grinder, but as I get closer to ordering I'll decide on my options. I really don't like grinding on a contact wheel, but if thats what sells I can always buy one.... Just checked, the KMG with flat platen and 10 inch contact wheel is $220 more than just the flat platen. Just the 10 inch wheel seperately is $308. I'd rather save up and buy it, then if I don't need it sell it for a small profit.

[Hayden H]

Alright, I'm half way to monetarily to order a KMG 18, but whats the difference in using a 10 inch contact wheel and an 8 inch contact wheel?

[Jeremy]

Hayden-

The larger diameter the wheel, the "more" you can do on a hollow grind. Imagine grinding into the side of the blade... The grind with a smaller wheel won't go as high up the blade before the grind on both sides of the blade are getting closer and closer to one another. Think of a larger wheel being closer (but still round) to a flat grind. The bigger the diameter, the higher up the blade you can go with the grind and you won't be hollowing out so much material, potentially getting it too thin in a particular spot. But, if you're only doing hollow grinds on smaller blades, it's probably not going to be a big deal.

I haven't had a grinder for long and don't do much in the way of hollow grinds so if other more experienced folks on here have some other good uses for larger wheels, I'm sure they'll help you out. I hope all that made some kind of sense...

Jeremy

[Hayden H]

So, the bigger the wheel the bigger bite of steel it'll take? So if I start making folders, Ineed a small wheel then?

[Jeremy]

Sorry, Hayden-I may have been a bit confusing with my explanation. I guess one question might be, are you doing hollow grinds or flat grinds? If flat, then I use a flat platen and the wheel size might not be a big worry. As for the bigger wheel taking a bigger bite of steel, sort of.... Let's look at it in more extremes-imagine trying to put a hollow grind on a blade with only a 4" wheel. You would have the same radius of the wheel in the side of your blade. As you try and get even grinds on both sides of the blade, the grind wouldn't go very high and because of the small diameter of the wheel, you'd be cutting more and more into the blade to get even the max height possible out of that wheel. Take a gigantic 16" wheel on the other extreme. It's so large that when a blade's applied to the edge, it's much closer to a flat grind and has a rather shallow concave shape, vs. the much more pronounced concave grind from the 4" wheel. The angle into the blade is less severe and you can have a high grind up the side of the blade (if that's what you want) without the problem of grinding out too much material into the blade because of the "flatter" angle. Obviously there's a lot less difference between an 8" & 10" wheel, but the same premise applies-they just allow a bit more in the way of options when doing hollow grinds on different size blades.

As for what wheels you need for folders, you'll have to wait and see what the smart folks on here have to offer-folders aren't in my skill set yet . I hope I haven't completely confused you and that something here might be of some kind of help. If not, I'm confident others can help get it explained right.

Jeremy

[Ed Caffrey]

Here's my explanation.... It's all going to depend on how you intend to grind. If you're plan is hollow grinding blades, larger blade will look and cut better when ground on a larger wheel (10") PROVIDED you don't make what I call a "bastardize" hollow grind.....that being a hollow grind where the edge is left overly thick, and then must have very obtuse edge bevels....that's just defeating the purpose. A true hollow grind is two arcs, that intersect at the cutting edge.

If the intent is to do smaller blade (narrower), then you might want a smaller wheel (8")

Personally, I don't do much hollow grinding, simply because it's a very specialized grind, for specific purposes, and the vast majority do it out of convenience rather than to enhance the performance characteristics of a blade. I don't mean to sound harsh by saying that, but it is a fact.

Although I do have both a 10" and a couple of 8" contact wheels, their main purpose is profiling and for times when I require a larger radius for specific grinding situations.

[Hayden H]

I'll do alot of flat platten, but I want to get into hollow grinding, because they look cool, and its something nobody's ever seen in my area. Every body uses a normal flat ground knife. I'd like to make a copy or two of my great grampas Gambil knife (German origin), and a few others hollow ground, just to see what they'd look like.

[Larry Peterson]

Hayden,

I use a bader-II and a KMG. I love them both but quite frankly, the KMG is alligned better because of the square tube, and with a three horse motor, it is a very smooth powerhouse. I have made up several 1 1/2 inch square bars for the various tools. Buster Warenski told me to use a rubber pad when bolting the Bader II to the table. I used a 3/4 inch piece of 70 durameter rubber from the local shoe making supplier to mount the KMG. Nice!! You can add more tool bars for various size wheels as you proceed with your knife making. I am using a 10 inch wheel from Grizzly ($67) along with several others to give me a good selection. If you have access to a lathe or even a good heavy drill it is amazing the tools you can create.

If we were to compare purchasing either a Bader-III and a KMG, and both came with the same tooling, I would go for the KMG.

Best wishes for your career as a knifemaker.

Larry Peterson

[Hayden H]

I think the best route to go to get the money to buy the grinder quickly would be to order
3 of these http://www.knifemaki...46.htm?CartID=1

and 1 of these http://www.knifemaki...53.htm?CartID=2

Put green Micarta handles on one, Mesquite and Stabilized Burl on the others. And Sell them for around $300 apeice. But gauruntee the handle material and the knife to some extent against defect. But maek sure that they know the blades are not of my creation, but made to exceeding standards.