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The Newbies Arena Are you new to knife making? Here is all the help you will need. |
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#16
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Out of curriosity, did you decide to go with the metal cutting saw or a wood saw? If I were starting again I'd rather wait a few months and get the metal saw and the right grinder than to be stuck with the wrong equipment for a much longer time. IMHO. Just trying to save you some greif.
-Ben M. |
#17
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I use a 4x36 and I don't think it's a bad investment. For me, it was the difference of close to $1000. I can't see much point in buying a 2x72 and not getting a KMG, so in the end you're at or around 1k for that vs. $80 for my belt sander. It's pretty slow and it has a lot of disadvantages, but you won't lose any fingers learning on it and it will still work later when you want to do work on scales and such, or if you just want to put a polishing belt on it. You will not be able to slack grind, nor will you be able to hollow grind very well, so yes, you are limited, but I don't think it's bad to own a cheap one.
Ray Rogers pointed out before that a 1" cheapo might be better and I will agree that there are some more things that you can do, such as slack grinding and getting into tighter spaces, but there are some things that you won't be able to do either, like using it horizontally for flattening wider stock. Six one way, half a dozen the other I suppose. I do want a 2x72 or a 1" for some work that I can't do on my 4", but I still think that my belt sander was a good investment. If I had kept to using cheap files I don't think I'd still be making knives and if I'd spent good money on good files, well I might be better off than now, but I dunno, because I still can't afford a KMG Someday when I'm not a poor college student I'll get a KMG. Surely, if you can afford to get one in just a couple months, you should go for it, but the belt sander isn't such a bad investment if you can't. Also, Chuck Richards from these forums likes disc sanders quite a bit, so you might want to search about them as well. There's more than one way to just about everything we do, I guess you've just got to decide which is best for you. Alex, I told the wife we're going to meet for coffee when we visit SF, it's looking like the 10th of October, do you think you can find the time to get together for an hour or so? __________________ Cap Hayes See my knives @ knives.caphayes.com This quote pains me: -- "Strategically placed blood grooves control blood spray in covert deanimation activities." -- |
#18
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Quote:
And I think I will probably start with the 4x36 to start because my wife really wants to get me something for doing my knives, well something around $100 anyway. And Grizzly has one with a 6" disk on it as well. I don't think I want to try anything really difficult with my first knife anyway, I was thinking a 6" utility with a 2.5" blade. __________________ Jayson H Bucy "Live so that your friends can defend you but never have to" - Arnold H. Glascow Last edited by JediOkie; 09-28-2006 at 01:49 PM. |
#19
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Thanks for the update. Sounds like a good start.
-Ben M. |
#20
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By the way, if you have trouble cutting metal with your band saw or your just worried about breaking it, the 10-15 dollar angle grinder and cutoff wheels is a great buy from HF or Grizzly, that's what I use to cut stock now, beats the heck out of a hacksaw and a dremel tool. My pop paid $10 for mine and I got his money's worth out of it in the first hour I had it out of the box
__________________ Cap Hayes See my knives @ knives.caphayes.com This quote pains me: -- "Strategically placed blood grooves control blood spray in covert deanimation activities." -- |
#21
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Call me stupid...
Isn't the only difference between a metal band saw and a wood bandsaw the blade? My dad had one of the large floor models when I was growing up and all we did was change the blades to what we were cutting. I know you cut slower for metal than wood...is that the other difference? Reid Allen |
#22
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Yes, speed is the difference. Many metals will work-harden if you cut them too fast and before you know it your progress comes to a stop. Also, speed means friction and heat. Too fast can ruin the blade, and also make the workpiece too hot to hold. There are people who have modified their wood bandsaws to run slower for cutting metal. That might be something to consider.
-Ben M. |
#23
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I think resistance plays a part too, wood cutting bandsaws, especially the little ones, aren't really made to make tough cuts for extended periods. I would think it's easier to wear out the bearings on them cutting metal because they aren't designed for it. But, I'm no expert on power tools.
__________________ Cap Hayes See my knives @ knives.caphayes.com This quote pains me: -- "Strategically placed blood grooves control blood spray in covert deanimation activities." -- |
#24
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You sure won't have much grinding control with a 4" belt grinder. And getting belts that will work well for you may be a problem. Those 2 X 48 that Grizzly sells seem like a darn good starting machine that should last you for many years. Just ask Ray. Frank
__________________ Without collectors there would not be makers. |
#25
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I did have a problem getting belts until I found out about supergrit.com, their belts are very affordable and get the job done. Not the nicest belts I've seen, but they sell SO and Zirc belts for just about any size sander/grinder you can find. You can get just about any grit between 24 and 800 there.
That being said, however, the griz is surely a much nicer machine. I just couldn't afford much when I first started and then I got married, so I still can't afford much I'll try to stop sounding like a 4x36 zealot, in all reality I would like something much better, but I still think it's a valuable tool with a place in the shop. Over on another forum I saw a new guy get railed for buying a 4x36 to start out with and I didn't ever see him come back, ever since then I've been trying to give the other side of the story, because it's not all that bad if you want an inexpensive starting point. /end rant __________________ Cap Hayes See my knives @ knives.caphayes.com This quote pains me: -- "Strategically placed blood grooves control blood spray in covert deanimation activities." -- |
#26
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Okay, I got a new 4x36 for $25 off an auction here in town which will let me practice and make a few blades sooner than christmas but also makes it easier to save up for a 2x72 a lot easier. Other than a drill press anything you all can think of that I need to get as far as power tools for the shop?
__________________ Jayson H Bucy "Live so that your friends can defend you but never have to" - Arnold H. Glascow |
#27
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Get something to cut your stock with. Either go with the metal cutting bandsaw or get an angle grinder. The bandsaw is expensive unless you get the portable, but I would just get a cheapo angle grinder over the portable. It will cost you $10-15 for an angle grinder from Harbor Freight plus a few bucks for shipping and another $7 or so for 10 cutoff wheels. In all, you shouldn't have to spend more than $30 including shipping.
I got a 24 grit grinding wheel thrown in with mine and I found that it is very useful too, I rough cut with the cutoff wheel, switch to the grinding wheel to get a "profile" and then smooth it out on the sander. It is much faster than either hacksaw or dremel, but also much slower and rougher than a bandsaw. By the way it gets everything very hot and sparks will fly, so wear gloves/eye protection and do your cutting outside, if you get one I think you got a good deal on your 4x36 and I think you'll get some faithful use out of it. You paid a lot less than I did and I still think I got a good deal I did get to work on a "real" grinder this weekend and I can say that it is a totally different world. I still think my 4x36 was a good buy, even if I am foaming at the mouth trying to find a way to get a 2x72 now. My only other piece of advice is to try to find an experienced maker in your area that will let you come out and learn from him/her at least once. Out of all of the money I've spent/wasted, blades I messed up and materials I've destroyed, the only regret I have is not learning from an experienced maker sooner. Even if you have to drive 3 or 4 hours, the money and time you'll spend going out there is worth more than the best tool in your shop... it was for me at least. Sorry for the long post. Regards, __________________ Cap Hayes See my knives @ knives.caphayes.com This quote pains me: -- "Strategically placed blood grooves control blood spray in covert deanimation activities." -- |
#28
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Forgot to say thanks for the link to supergrit so thank you. And there is a gentleman from my church who used to make knives once upon a time and I've already been over there once and learned a lot from him. He actually made his first knife with nothing but a file and a bench grinder and an old lawn mower blade. Still has it and it is a pretty sharp knife still.
Thank you all for the advice and I will definetly look into the angle grinder. I just got a shop building this weekend as well (the wife wants her garage back), so I will be working on setting that up. I've been looking online at the way everyone else has theirs set up for ideas. I probably won't get to make my first blade until around christmas and I will definately post pics as soon as its done. __________________ Jayson H Bucy "Live so that your friends can defend you but never have to" - Arnold H. Glascow |
#29
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Good news bad news on the bandsaw. It has three different speed settings, including a slower speed at around 110 FPM so if my research is correct with a metal cutting blade that should be perfectly fine for cutting blades with. Bad news it is 220 and my shop was wired for 110 before I found out. I checked in the garage and mud room and we don't even have a 220 anywhere in the house.
What was that you were saying about the angle grinder Cap? Do you do all of your cuts with that? Wouldn't the heat build up you mentioned prematurly harden the metal? I figured that might be a less expensive way to go until I can afford to get the shop rewired with a drop for 220. __________________ Jayson H Bucy "Live so that your friends can defend you but never have to" - Arnold H. Glascow Last edited by JediOkie; 10-07-2006 at 10:19 PM. |
#30
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Nah, 800 degrees is pretty much annealing temp for carbon steel, I think it gets up to about 600 if the oxide colours are right. Anyways, it doesn't heat all the way through the steel because the cuts are so fast, so the outer layer gets ground off rather quickly. I would worry about wearing out the bearings in the saw cutting steel, even annealed it's pretty hard, I'd stick to cutting handle materials with it and maybe bolster material if you're using non-ferrous metals like brass and copper. Anyways, I really like the angle grinder, it's fast and cheap. Bob Warner mentioned before that he still uses one for his blanks, even though he has a metal cutting bandsaw.
You might just ask around here a little bit about the wiring, if the gauge is thick enough or the saw doesn't draw too much power it shouldn't be a big deal to install a plug. __________________ Cap Hayes See my knives @ knives.caphayes.com This quote pains me: -- "Strategically placed blood grooves control blood spray in covert deanimation activities." -- |
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