Can someone tell me how this is done?

[Bob Warner]

Hello all,

Just like I have been for the last "to many" years I am trying to figure out something and like "to many" times I am having a stupid attack and can't seem to get it.

I am talking about a new opening mechanism that a friend of mine has on his factory knife. Automatic knives are illegal here in Texas but apparenty these are. They are called "Spring Assisted" and look like a regular lockback but when you start to open them, a spring throws the blade open like an auto. There is no button to push, you just get the blade started moving and out it comes.

I am guessing that the knife operates like any other lockback but has the spring helper. The blade is not locked in the closed position like an automatic. Maybe it is just really good craftmanship in action to get the spring that close to opening the blade but not quite enough to let it open without that little bit of help.

I really don't want to buy one because I don't need a factory knife laying around (makes me look like I don't like my own stuff) but I am really curious how they work.

Anyone here make them?

[Bob Sigmon]

Bob,

Most of the production knive out there with this type of "assist" are designed by Ken Onion and produced by Kershaw.

I have one at home but have never taken it apart. Hmmmm........sound like it's time. I'll dig it out and try to get some pics.

Bob Sigmon

[Bob Warner]

Thanks Bob, I would appreciate it.

[Bob Sigmon]

We are here but to serve, my brother!

Bob

[dogman]

It is a torsion assist.

[Bob Warner]

Thanks Bob.

It is now clear as MUD.

Has anyone realized this is a thread that has all BOB's?

[whv]

i'll fix that for you, bob
blackie collins also has a design on the market (Meyerco) for this type of knife. i have one on order to use for ideas, but be careful of patents.

[Bob Warner]

Like I said earlier, I am just curious.

However, I do know a little about patents (Got a couple myself) and usually the knife industry gets design patents and not utility patents.

Have you ever heard that "All you have to do is change one little thing and you can make it" well that is true. It is true for Design patents anyway. They patent the design and if you chage something it is a different design, so you can make it.

The hard ones to get around are the utility patents. They patent what the item is used for (What it does) and the only way to deal with those is to IMPROVE on the current patent and apply for a new patent based on your improvement.

Anyway, I have yet to make a folder so I think these people are safe from me (for now anyway).

[whv]

i have heard that. have also heard that the reason to be careful of "pat applied for" is that you can't find out (lack of number) what toe you might step on when the patent is granted. do you know if that is true?
tai

[Frank Niro]

This sure is interesting to hear about! Benchmade has a patten and as I understand has just gone into production on a system designed by a friend . His name is Stan Moizis and he has been able to come up with what he has told me is the simplest of devices with no milling required to produce. I too am looking forward to seeing his system. Everything had to remain just with him and Benchmade while he pattens were being applied for and I sure didn't push him to find out how this idea worked. I understand that the first knives from Benchmade with this easy opener, easy closing also may just be being manufactured. Stan has told me that once he receives his production model he certainly will satisfy my curiosity. This system is based on a liner locking system to lock it open. Sometimes , this stuff comes from pretty close to home but we still are left in the dark. Oh by the way, if Stan had his way he would like to see all custom makers able to use his "assissted" opening, closing system, however unless the system is changed "some" that's not possible without liscence from Benchmade. I believe in Canada the law allows for the making of one copy. Frank Niro.

[Bob Sigmon]

Posted for educational purposes only!

First pic is the left side and the blade with the extra hole for the spring to insert into.



Second pic is the right side with the lock.



Third pic shows the left side with the liner taken out and the spring in the proper position.



Fourth pic show the spring in it approx. position on the wrong side of the liner. There is a small slot that the tail of the spring ride in just above the liner on the right side.



If you have any questions, let me know.

Bob Sigmon

[Bob Warner]

Frank,

Are you saying that your friend Stan came up with a design and Benchmade patented it?

This can be confusing the way this works but ONLY the inventor can patent an item. The inventor's name will be the only name in the "Inventor's name" field of the patent.

Let's say for example that your friend had a killer idea and went to Benchmade about it. They liked the idea and wanted to make it. First of all he would be accomplishing a major feat since most companies are not interested hearnig about your ideas (unless already patented) because they could possibly be in development of the same thing already and by seeing your idea, you could claim they stole it. Anyway, If the company liked his idea and wanted to produce it, they could work out a licensing agreement so that the company would help the inventor with filing the patent with money or legal help and in exchange the inventor would ####### the company to make them for a percentage of the profits. This percent is usually pretty small but large volume of sales will make the checks look pretty good. Or the company could assist the inventor and just buy the idea from him. The inventor would still be listed as the inventor but the company would be listed as the assignee.

If your friend "invented" it and Benchmade patented it, something is not quite right about that deal. I would be interested in learning more about how the agreement was arranged. I have no interest in learing the "Invention" as it is a secret and will eventually come to light when the patent is issued.

Do you know if it is a design patent or a utility patent that was applied for?

WHV,
It is true that "Patent Pending" is a warning sign. Basically thats all it is, a WARNING telliing potential copiers of the product that when the patent is finally granted, they will have the right to sue those copying their work for patent infringement. Since the patent is not granted, you don't know what "Claims" are made in the patent and therefore you don't know what exactly is patented so it is best to avoid thinking about copying them.

Also, it is illegal to put "Patent Pending" on an item of yours that is not really patent pending.

Intellectual Property Rights is something I mess with all the time, always have a new idea bouncing around in my skull.

[switchkid0]

Hey Bob

In Siggi's photo's I'm sure you can see the detent located on the lock part of the liner. It's nothing more than punched through from the back side and provides enough hold to keep the blade from flopping around.

I bought several of these, took them apart, dressed them up with filework and some fancy scales. They made great gifts.

As far as I know, from checking out the online catalogs, these are not legal for sale in Michigan, but are o.k. everywhere else... for now.

As a big fan of Auto's, I for one was glad to see this design hit the market. It provides a great bridge between the ultra-fast opening tactical liner-locks, and full auto's. Maybe this can help to change some attitudes and possibly lead to changes in the frivolous "switchblade" laws.

[Bob Sigmon]

Yea, Michigan law prohibits sales of automatics (except to law enforcement, firemen and paramedics)

I got mine from a rogue fireman, but I am very careful about where I use it.

Bob Sigmon

[Frank Niro]

Hi Bob! Well you've got a lot of that right. The patents are owned by Stan and Benchmade as the only liscence to produce. Well yes it must have been a GREAT idea because thats's where it all srarted. He showed them the idea and then everything else followed. They assisted him financialy and with information on drawing up his idea in getting the patent. No I don't know what type of a patent it is. I do know that so far Stan has been very pleased with his association and dealings with Benchmade. I also believe you are right about the fact that his percentage of return will be very small.