folder 4 - suggestions welcome

[SVanderkolff]

Here is folder #4 It is 2 1/2" closed and 4 1/2" open.
Any suggestions for improvements more than welcome
Thanks
Steve

[Ed Caffrey]

Looks very good for #4! A few suggestions I would make are:

1. To me the blade looks too small for the handle. It appears that you might be able to lower the pivot hole slightly, which will allow you to utilize a slightly larger blade (top to bottom) with the same frame/handle size.

2. The screws should be countersunk into the handle material, and equally spaced (in the photo is appears that one of the screws is overhanging the back of the handle material) Are there internal screws holding the liners/spacer together?

3. The only other possible change I can see is the junction of the ricasso and the bolsters. They should flow a little better....that meaning that it appears that the blade and handle were designed separately, and then put together. Thats a minor thing at this point, but something to keep in mind as you progress.


Thanks for sharing!

[SVanderkolff]

Ed
Thanks for the comments. I don't understand what you mean in comment 3. Are you talking material or what?
Thanks
Steve

[Don Robinson]

Steve, that's a fine looking job compared to your first 3. Looks to me like you have the mechanics and geometry figured out. As Ed says you need to work on refinement now.

Good job!!

[Ed Caffrey]

Hi Steve!

#3: Nothing to do with the materials. I think for me its the notch that is showing between the ricasso and the front of the bolsters....it breaks the flow, and sort of looks like an afterthought. I guess what I've come to expect is to have the bottom of the ricasso flow into the bolster/handle (as if it were a fixed blade, when its open) This sort of goes hand in hand with #1. If the blade was slightly wider(top to bottom), it would make it very easy to make that portion flow into the bolster/handle area. Which goes along with slightly lowering the pivot hole, which will enable you to put more blade into that frame size.

The whole trick with folders is to realize and understand that each and every aspect of the knife impacts everything else. Example: The placement of the pivot hole effects the size/configuration of blade you can use. The size/configuration of the blade will effect how the overall design flows. etc, etc. I'm trying to figure out how to put it into words so it makes sense...... sometimes you have to back up several steps in order to find what has caused a specific situation.....not sure even that makes sense.

Please don't think I'm picking.....these are all things to keep in mind, and the more folders you make, the better they will become. I still mess folders up all the time, and more often than not have to take a few steps back on each one to repair something I've missed or overlooked. Folders give you A LOT to think about, and represent a giant leap in required concentration and precision during construction, compared to straight knives.

[SVanderkolff]

The notch is for the stop pin, which in this case isn't actually a pin but rather built in ot the back spacer.
So by lowering the pivot I can end up with more blade above the pivot point and more room in the back for the stop and as long as the back of the blade does't stick out beyond the bottom of the bolster I should be good. It will also allow for a slightly wider blade to fix the blade to handle size pproblem.
NEAT, thanks
Steve

[Ed Caffrey]

The placement of the stop pin can, whether its a separate part or built into the spacer, play a major role in how everything else fits in and works. I've defeated this issue by using a floating stop pin, which goes through the blade, and rides through the arc of travel with the blade. Both liners have milled slots for the pin to travel in during the opening/closing of the blade. Finding the open/closed stops is a simple matter of putting the blade on one liner, with the pivot in place, positioning the blade where you want it for the open or closed position, then drilling the correct size hole through the blade and liner at the same time. Repeat the process for the other position. Then put both liners together without the blade, and use the previously drilled holes as a template for the other liner. You can then put the blade back in place on one liner, and use a marker through the hole you drilled in the blade to mark the travel arc that needs to be cut/milled out. The only critical part of the arc is the back of the holes you drilled, where the stop pin will rest in both open and closed positions, otherwise the only must is that the pin be able to travel the arc without hitting the side of the cutout arc. When the folder is assembled, the cutout in the liners cannot be seen, and often times when someone notices there is no stationary stop pin, they cannot figure out how the blade stops in the open and closed positions. (the pin itself is a few thousandths shorter than the distance between the inside of the handle material, so it doesn't bind along the way.) Size of the pin is dependent the size of folder your making, and your person tastes. I usually use a .125 harden pin for my Progressions and similar sized folders, and a .093 pin for smaller gents sized folders.

Whatever method you utilize, it needs to be something that complements the construction/finished appearance of the knife. If a specific item/method causes the overall knife to be "off", then its a matter of seeking/trying something else to correct the situation.
Sometimes with folders, it takes more time to pinpoint the cause of something, than it does to actually build/fix it. Thats what I was trying to say earlier, about everything effecting everything else...still not sure I said it so it makes sense.

[SVanderkolff]

Ed
I like that idea. I will have to try it on my next one.
Thanks a whole bunch
Steve

[balibalistic]

Steve,your folders are coming along nicely! i think if you dovetail the bolster it would add a much cleaner more precise look!also counterbore the screw's into overlays..,i normally trim the head diameter down on my 2-56 then use a 5/32" counterbore.cant wait to see the next!!

[SVanderkolff]

Yes, I made the holes too close to the edge so even the 0-80 screws could not be countersunk in to the scales. I will know better next time.
Steve

[plain ol Bill]

Steve I am going to make another suggestion about the design. The top edge of the handle part of your knife has an arc in it. The top edge of your blade is flat. If the top edge of your blade had a similiar curve as the handle and the line of the blade and handle formed an arc it would be more pleasing to the eye (in my opinion anyway). I like the plunge line on folders to be closer in to the handle and provide a longer working edge (again just my likes). I would like to see a shot of the top of the knife also.

[W. Leavitt]

Not that I'm an expert but I love wharnies and I think if you turned the blade upside down it'd be a bang up warncliff and would help the handle and blade flow together a bit better.

But that's just me.

Looks great to me!

Will

[Frank Niro]

I , also think your folder is vey good for just the 4 th. !!!! My one remark wouild be to see if you can get to a two screw set up positioned as you see on most liner locking knives. It will make the folder more acceptable .
Ed, I think your development of that "floating " stop pin is truly a first class update !!! I will want to try it soon !!! With respect I have to ask if you have pattened this or are protecting it by copywrite ? Yesterday I was fooling around with trying to come up with a better stop meathod but in truth never got out of the box. Is this another of your "gifts" to makers to be used as they wish? My thanks to you, Ed !!!!

[Ed Caffrey]

The floating stop pin wasn't my idea. I was told/taught it by Tom Ferry. I think he learned of it from someone else, but am not completely sure. The only issue I have found with the method is that it can make it difficult to locate/attach a pocket clip on the pivot end of the knife.

I'm dead set against folders that have pocket clips on the rear, that are carried with the pivot end facing down in the pocket. Not only is it dangerous, but the liability issues are very real too.

[W. Leavitt]

Originally Posted by Ed Caffrey

The floating stop pin wasn't my idea. I was told/taught it by Tom Ferry. I think he learned of it from someone else, but am not completely sure. The only issue I have found with the method is that it can make it difficult to locate/attach a pocket clip on the pivot end of the knife.

I'm dead set against folders that have pocket clips on the rear, that are carried with the pivot end facing down in the pocket. Not only is it dangerous, but the liability issues are very real too.

Ed, Would you elaborate on the issue of "tip up" carry? I carried a folder "tip up" for years all over the world as a soldier and never once came close to any problems.

Not arguing with you but looking for information because I prefer tip up and the few folders I've made with a clip are tip up.

Will