Wich Epoxy ?

[SKIVIE]

Ive been using a quick set 2 part epoxy in those little syringes that put out both parts together and for some reason i make a bigger mess than its worth.

Went to the wood store today to find something that might work a little better and I think I found it but wanted some opinions.

Its From Bob Smith Industries its a 2 part epoxy but in seperate bottles. Its a 15 min cure and totally cure in two hours. Anyone ever tried this stuff and whats opionion on it. Or do you have an Idea that would make things easier for me.

Shane

[jph]

Shane:

Let me explain something....IF you order X amount of epoxy from various suppliers..they will put whatever lable you want on the bottles.. this sounds like generic 15 minute epoxy to me..

Now I use marine grade "System Three" 30 minute stuff, and this is like water so it needs a thickener..which I use fumed silica as the thickening agent. This way I can adjust the viscosity I need at any given time for any project.

Usually the longer the set time, the stronger the bond is with epoxies... a 15 minute cured should be more than adequate for 99% of the "knife making" applications...

The one great thing about using gallons is the price break..I figure it's between 25 and 30% less...

[Jan Dox]

JPH,

Is that epoxy similar to the types used for laminating glass-or carbon-fiber in the industrie?

Is it colourless and UV resistent?
Then it might be used for impregnating cordwrapped handles without changing the color of the wrap?


Jan

[jph]

Jan:

That's the stuff..I figured that it if was strong and durable enough to laminate fiberglass and wood for making boats, "knifemaking" applications should be a breeze for this stuff. Couple that with the fact that I can adjust the viscosity, it's all that much more suitable for what I do. If I need it thick for void filling, you make it thicker, if you need to to really penetrate, it's already thinner than water and gets right into all the small little spaces.

Plus is a good deal lower in the $$$ department too! And for a frugal guy ( TIGHTWAD) like me, that is always good..

JPH

[Anthony Chaney]

Since the epoxy that Jim uses is so thin, I wonder how it would work as a wood stabilizer? Just thinking out loud here. Oh yeah, one question. What is fumed silica?

[SVanderkolff]

I prefer the Devcon 2 ton 24 hour cure. I have found that the fast cure stuff tends to be brittle.
Steve

[Jan Dox]

Fumed silica is one of those powders they specifically sell to thicken the epoxy. I have a similar stuff here and when added to the epoxy it dissolves and makes it thicker. You can add up to a certain amount before it gets more of a jointfiller than a glue.
(allways read manufacturers directions for use)
The stuff I have makes clear epoxy creamcoloured, so for certain applications it is neccessary to ad pigment(color) as well to camouflage the glueline or repairs.

It can be used to stabilise certain woods, impregnate cordwrapped handles , fill antler (mixed with the powdered core)and a lot more.For the woods it might harden a bit too fast to fully penetrate, but a test can show if it works allright or not.

Warming up the epoxy (in hot water)keeps it thinner for a while, but then it cures faster. Using a hairdryer helps when impregnating cordwraps (tip from Jason Cutter).


Jan

[jph]

Jan:

When I use the fumed silica it mixes up creamy white but cures clear..What are you using as a thickener?? I know about the micro-balloons and other stuff, just wondering what you use...

JPH

[Jan Dox]

Jim,

I"ll have to check with my supplier what stuff this exactly is.
It is just labelled" Thickener for epoxy and Polyester"


Jan

[whv]

gougeon brothers west system epoxy great stuff - used for boats and laminated car/motorcycle bodies, it works great on knife handles.

[Osprey Guy]

Shane-

For what it's worth, I spent a lot of time looking into this subject. "Bob Smith Industries" are specialists in epoxies and CA's. They are the "name brand"...More often than not, they private label for retailers. Many hobby shops carry their products, but with the store's label. Grizzly carries almost their entire, sizeable line of terrific, specialized CA's, including Maxi-Cure, Insta-Cure, and Super Gold.

If you don't need much time for set-up, their Maxi-Cure CA is a very strong adhesive for metal, wood, and glass. I like their IC-2000 and the new Insta-Flex for many applications...They're rubber reinforced so they have good shock resistant qualities...(The IC-2000 is black in color...it's often used to repair tires on high-end model race cars and planes. I use it especially whenever I need a good, black-colored adhesive). FYI-Cured CA is actually acrylic plastic.

According to Bob Smith Industries (who also make epoxies), the primary reason for using an epoxy over a CA is for economy, and if more working time is required (Epoxy is about 1/4 the cost of CA).

Now, if you do need more working time, and choose to go with epoxies, like Jim I happen to really like the System Three line of epoxies. That company has put a lot of time and research into their epoxies...They even sell a booklet on how to properly use epoxy (I know it's available at Woodcraft). As has already been stated, the general rule of thumb when it comes to epoxies is the longer the cure time, the stronger the bond.

A couple of helpful hints regarding CA's and Epoxies: Store CA in the fridge, it'll stay fresh longer.(Heat and moisture decrease the shelf life). Keep them away from bottles of accelarator...the fumes will migrate to the CA and it'll harden in the bottle. Epoxies work more slowly in cold temperature. (You can heat in a microwave for 10 sec. and it'll flow more easily). Too cold and it won't cure at all. Try and work with it in temps above 65 degrees F (Working time decreases by about 25% above 90 degrees). Acetone is the best solvent for epoxy and CA.


Dennis Greenbaum

Yeah Baby!

[SKIVIE]

Very good information, Thanks everyone.

Dennis, Ive actually used the BSI epoxy since I started this thread and So far So good. Looks to be a great Epoxy. One thing I did do though that you might be able to enlighten me on, I epoxied the black spacer on the pomel end of the Antler, It sat for two days and As I tugged on it just a touch to test it a little it cracked and acted like it wanted to pop loose. In a situation like that will that spacer not stay adhered to the antler until that pomel is put on to help it ? I figured that once the pomel was on and epoxied there probably wouldnt be any problems but figured I would ask. Thanks again.

Shane

[Osprey Guy]

If the epoxy cured properly, the spacer should have securely stuck to the antler. If you have to use the pommel to hold it in place, than what's the point of using epoxy?

The thing about epoxy is that it's real important to get the portions right. If it's one-to-one, than you need to try and keep close to that ratio. If you're off, it may never cure properly...even two days later. (also make sure it's not too cold in your shop...as I mentioned, if you're trying to use epoxy in room temps below 65 degrees, you could have trouble with curing).

One easy way to make sure... If it's the correct ratio, with most epoxies you'll know you got it right when the mix of the two parts turns "milky". Keep mixing the two together until you achieve that milky appearance. If it doesn't change to milky, chances are something's wrong.

Also, make sure your surfaces are clean and slightly "roughed." Epoxies work best when your two surfaces are well cleaned, and textured.


Dennis Greenbaum

Yeah Baby!

[SKIVIE]

Thanks Dennis, Thanks for the Advise, Ill keep all that in mind.

Shane

[yendor]

I use a millitary surplus expoxy. That my friends gets. I think it is jb weld. At least it looks likes and acts like jb weld. i get 2 gallon kits from him for 20$ i think or i could get a 2 55 gallon kit for like 100$ i think he charges. Do you all think that the stuff i am using is any good. Want to try some let me know i can get as much as you can use. and i would like to know if it is any good.