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The Newbies Arena Are you new to knife making? Here is all the help you will need.

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  #1  
Old 11-05-2015, 07:07 PM
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Grayshadow95 Grayshadow95 is offline
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Blade advise followup

It has taken a while, but I have finally been able to put to use the excellent advise provided back in May by Ray and Ed on heat treating a blade made from an old wood rasp.

The "test" blade shown here:
Attachment 15452

was heat treated as per Rays directions and turned out nicely.
Since I don't have a hardness tester yet, I can only compare it to knives I have sharpened over the years. The closest I can compare it to would be a Buck sheath knife. It is quite hard and took a lot of time and patience to get a good edge on it. Since then I have whittled on scrap pieces of oak, hard maple and cherry, cut cardboard, rope, leather and any other abusive material other than metal and the edge is holding up nicely, requiring only a couple swipes over my good hard white Arkansas stone to touch up the edge.

Consequently, I followed the same process to heat treat the full size blade, and have just finished up attaching the handle and making the sheath:
Attachment 15453
Attachment 15454
knife 005-1.jpg
knife 006-1.jpg

Still a little more work to do on the final edge. Using the thumbnail test I found a couple small flat spots, but it is coming along nicely!

Thanks very much for your advise Ray and Ed!!!!!

Last edited by Grayshadow95; 12-02-2017 at 11:11 AM.
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Old 11-05-2015, 07:29 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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All we did was provide some information, you obviously put it to good use! Beautiful work ...


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Old 11-06-2015, 06:15 AM
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Well done! What's next?


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Old 11-06-2015, 07:44 AM
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Not sure yet, I still have another rasp to use, but I need to do some research to figure out which types of steel I would like to work with. I understand each one has good points and drawbacks. I do know that I don't like working with stainless!

My preference is older style knives, so the steel should reflect that.
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Old 11-06-2015, 12:21 PM
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Wow nice work, I would say go for some 1080 or 1084, easy to heat treat, makes an excellent blade and will build up a patina over time. Keep posting, we can't wait to see what's next.


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Old 11-06-2015, 02:36 PM
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Thanks for the praise and encouragement guys!
I have more practice at making handles and sheaths than blades, but I hope with more practice I'll get better!

1080 or 1084? I'll check those out. Any suggestions on a reliable source?
I already do business with K&N and Jantz, any others worth checking into?

I also love damascus blades, any suggestions on a good reasonably priced source for billets?
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Old 11-06-2015, 02:51 PM
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There is a Sticky thread at the top of the forum for sourcing 1084 ...


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Old 11-06-2015, 02:56 PM
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You can check out the sticky thread but I order my 1084 from the new jersey steel baron and I've ordered 1080 from texas knife supply. Google either one of those and you'll find them easily.

As far as which, I haven't noticed much of a difference in either of the steels but I'm not an expert. I currently am sticking with 1084 from njsb because I can get quality steel at a good price per foot.


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Old 11-08-2015, 08:56 PM
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OK, I can see why some of you like NJSB! Their prices are significantly better than other places I have been buying supplies from.
Looks like my next order will be to NJSB!

Two questions;
Is there a key to the NJSB color coding?

Which would be closer to the old rasp steel I made my latest knife from, 0-1 tool steel or 1084 high carbon steel?
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Old 11-09-2015, 06:18 AM
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Aldo's good people and strives to provide the knifemaking community with quality steel.

Ask Aldo on the color coding. Always mark your steel when you get it, that end color tends to disappear.

Old rasp steel is "mystery" steel. There are as many different steels used as mfgrs. and that has even changed over the years. The usual assumption is that most were made of 1095, W1, W2, etc. Very unlikely any were made from O1. Some testing done on some rasp indicated they were in the 1060 range and a lot of imports on the market now are just case hardened ...... like I said "mystery" steel.
Mfgr's are not giving out their data sheets on files/rasps, etc. It's rather expensive to have lab tested and not recommended unless you have and intend to use a tremendous amount of one material. Experienced field testing can get you in the "go - no go" ball park and reasonably close to carbon content, but is subjective by all means.
Your best bet is to start with 1084 and learn the basics of thermal cycling, edge geometry, and knife ergonomics. Leave all the more complicated steels and techniques alone until you have some solid experience under your belt. You will learn better, faster, and more if you keep it simple and work it hard.


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Old 11-09-2015, 05:31 PM
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Thanks for the info Carl!

Had that "mystery steel" discussion with Ray back in my original post on this knife asking how to heat treat the blade. Since it was determined that the rasps were likely quite a bit older than 25 years, and were cheap, it was worth the effort if for nothing else than a learning experience.

I have been buying finished blades and putting handles on them since the early 70s. I have wanted to make my own blades since watching a bladesmith in Munich, Germany make a couple blades from old woodworking tools. He made the blade for my large Bowie knife that can be seen in my photo album.
I have read extensively on knife making, and watched several how-to videos. Unfortunately the city I live in will not allow me to install a forge on my property, so I have to use the stock removal process.
I like the "toughness" that results from making a blade from old files, so I just may try something from W1 or W2. I also like simple knife designs, so I will keep it simple, for now.
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Old 11-09-2015, 05:45 PM
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If you have a torch your can test those files by heating the tang and quenching it in water. Put it in a vice and give the tang a nice strike with a hammer. If it breaks clean you have what could be a good file. If it bends, throw it away. Now you can cut and grind your knife stock removal style then give it a temper cycle or two. Use the brass rod to test edge brittleness. If the edge chips raise the temper another 25 deg. For big blades you can even use the torch for a soft back draw.

This method works well doing hidden tang if you know how to braze threads for a bolt through handle.
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Old 11-09-2015, 08:40 PM
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Thanks jmc, I'll definitely try that test method.

I have an oxy-acetelene torch and a mig welder. I used the torch to draw the temper out of the rasp for this knife because it wouldn't fit in my wife's jewlry kiln! The shaped blade fit in the kiln perfectly, so I used it for the heat treating. 1500 degrees for 6 to 8 minutes then quench in canola oil. Then two cycles of 425 degrees with slow air cooling.

I'm not a big fan of bolt through handles. I prefer blades where the tang is about half an inch shorter than the handle, then I use industrial two part structural epoxy and a couple pins through the last segment of the handle and the tang.
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Old 11-10-2015, 05:45 AM
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Only thing I would disagree with JM on is throwing away the "soft" file. I never throw any steel away - engrained hoarder in me. I save the questionable files and use them for wrap around tomahawks. I just insert a high carb bit for the cutting edge during weld-up. But that's just me.

Depending on the thickness/length (mass) of the blade, you might want to consider a little longer soak at 1500 in the kiln unless you are letting the kiln ramp up with the blade already in it.

Sounds like you're having fun and are headed in the right direction.


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Old 11-10-2015, 07:56 AM
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I'm with you on that Carl, only I hoard wood as well as metal! Too many things it can be used for. If not for a sharp implement, then it often gets used to repair something! I also make handgun grips out some of the wood pieces that have nice grain patterns.

Yes, I took the size of the blade into consideration, it is 5/32 thick, 1-1/4 wide, and 11-1/2 inches in length total. So I had the blade in the kiln as it ramped up to ~1500. One of the videos I watched discussed that point. I then checked for critical temperature with an automotive telescoping magnet at the middle and both ends.

Yes, I enjoy the sense of accomplishment of making something useful, and potentially making some money as a result!
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