Medieval Razor

[Octoris]

Hello All, I am new to the forum, but have been reading it for about 4 months now. I've been making knives on my own from old files for about twenty years.
My question is this, I want to make a Medieval Razor with a flat grind. So what degree of angle should the bevel be?, I plan to use 1095 or 01 tool steel to make it. I've read on the shaving forums that 1095 makes a pretty good razor.
The reason I want to make it is, I'm a medieval reinactor, and they didn't use hollow grind in the middle ages. To make things difficult, I've tried looking for medieval razors so I would have one to copy from, but no luck so far. I would also be making them for other medieval reinactors, so I do want to make a razor that works its best.
I would like to use 1095, 1/8 x 1 1/2 inches as my blade stock, so I do have plenty of room to grind an accute bevel on the razor its self. I have tried looking on FAQ on several forums and can't find the best angle for a razor. Any help would be appreciated.
Also I make my blades by hand, so again, a hollow grind is out of the question, I don't have a belt sander yet. thanks for all your help in the past and for answering any of my questions. Octoris

[Ray Rogers]

At what angle do you grind the bevels on your knives? My guess is, you've never given it any thought because there's no need to consider it. There's no need on a razor either.

Once you have decided on the thickness of the steel you will use and how tall the blade will be you have automatically decided on the angle that is needed for a blade of those dimensions to be flat ground. Since you don't know what the dimensions were on medieval razors (and neither do I) then your angle will simply be based on the dimensions of the blade you make. My best guess would be that ancient razors were made from very thin steel because steel was difficult to get and because it is much easier to get razor sharpness from a thin blade....

[Octoris]

Thanks Ray for your input, I have given thought to the degree of the bevels I file on my table knives. I cut a 16 degree combined angle because they are intended for cooked food and will not see a lot of wear and tear. I have always used an angle close to this on the other knives I have made.
I thought that I might want to go with an even more acute angle and make the blade thinner so its easy to sharpen on a strop. Maybe 10 degrees would be too thin, what do you think?
And do you think that 1095 is a good choice for the steel, or should I use 01?

[Ray Rogers]

Sounds like you're talking about the secondary bevel, otherwise known as the edge, rather than the primary grind. Most razors I've seen, like my grandfather's antique that I have, use a zero edge. That's no secondary bevel at all - just the primary grind ground down until it is sharp. This is a very difficult edge to make without grinding too much steel away and ending up with a wavy edge (so do the last part of the grinding by hand). If you want to use a secondary bevel I'd suggest 7 degrees or less.

1095 would probably be more similar to the steels used in the old days but either steel will make a good blade if you can handle the heat treat. O1 requires an electric oven to heat treat correctly. 1095 is simpler but touchy - do a Search on 1095 and learn what you can if you've never used it before ...

[Octoris]

Thanks Ray, I have found one photo of a medieval razor, but I found it on a medieval reinactors web site. I intend to send them an email and see if they can give me some deminsions as to its size.
The razor is slightly curved and folds into the handle just like a modern razor, but the blade resembles something like a dagger. I would post the photo from the website, but I don't know how to do that yet.
I think that 7 degrees sounds good. I could grind the bevel to 5 or 6 degrees and leave a .040 edge, then after heat treating, cut the edge to a 7 degrees.
I should have explained that I plan to bevel the edge of the razor, and leave some metal at the top of the blade, so the user has something to hold onto when they shave.
Also I plan to buy the book "knives and scabbards", and hopefully I will find at least one razor that has been documented and some measurements of the artifact.

[Pairomedicsfish]

Do a search for neo tribal razor on Paleo Planet.....i cant copy the link using my nook.....This may not be midieval.....but it is cool.....actually, after I looked a bit....itt is on this site.....do a search in the archives.....very cool blade that I may try my hand at.

[Octoris]

Thanks Pairomedicsfish, I checked out both posts that the fellow made. and saw both of his neo-tribal razors. they look very cool, and I think it was a very cool idea on his part. They sort of look like some egyptian razors that I found in my research about razors. Any way it gave me some ideas too. I think I will try to make some razors sort of like his edge shape and use some artistic licences and get creative.
Many blacksmiths in the reinactors groups make things that are not exactly period correct, and they still manage to sell them. so I think I can make several different designs and can sell them if they look medieval. Thanks for telling me about the link, Octoris

[Octoris]

I made a blade with a 7 degree combined angle, but it is too thin and large to be of any use. So I decided to do more research and see if I could find any razors from the medieval period. So I did a search for "iron age razor" on google and found one that is dated to the 6th century from Denmark. The blade of the razor seemed small compared to the one I had made, so I decided to do even more research. I found a blog on razor restoration and the writer said that modern razors have a combined angle of 13 to 17 degrees. I did a drawing to get the measurement of the bevel, and discovered that if I use 1/8 inch steel, I can grind a bevel 14mm wide, and that will give me a 13 degree combined angle on the bevel.
I posted a photo in my album that has the prototype renaissance style razor that I made. I made it to get the finger placement and handle size that would work as a razor. I chose renaissance style because I haven't found a razor from the medieval period yet, perhaps the 6th century is as close as I'm going to get. The book "knives and scabbards" didn't have any razors in it. But I was planning on making copies of medieval knives anyway, so I didn't waste my money.
As soon as I get a finished razor in the renaissance style I'll post it in my album.

[Octoris]

I finally found two photos of a medieval folding razor from the 15th century. It was made in Germany, and is made of folded steel. The demisions are 200mm OAL, The blade is 104.5 x 19.63mm. The blade looks like it is a little bit over 1/8 inch thick at the spine. It was found in a trash pit, so it was discarded after years of use. The handle looks like its made of wood.