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The Newbies Arena Are you new to knife making? Here is all the help you will need.

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  #1  
Old 12-17-2003, 09:47 AM
hagartyman hagartyman is offline
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Mill files for knife steel

I have a question about using bastard mill files for the blade material. I have talked with one knife maker who uses the files for the steel and grinds them on a belt sander. According to him the grinding process of the file lowers the hardness of the file enough so that it is no longer brittle but holds a great edge.

I am brand new at knife making and really want to use the right material. This sounds like a great way to go because of the price and availability of the steel but I want to be sure.
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  #2  
Old 12-17-2003, 10:52 AM
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YAMAMA YAMAMA is offline
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I have no experience with this so I may just be speaking out my a$$ here but that is nothing new so I'll continue...

Since the files are hardened I would think you would want to soften the steel prior to working it on the belt grinder. Get you profile cut and your edge roughed in and then re-harden and temper it.

The file might be W-2 steel so you would have to research an appropriate heat treat method.

Now I will let the experts give the real advice...

Good luck on your project. Post pics when complete.
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  #3  
Old 12-17-2003, 10:59 AM
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Jamey Saunders Jamey Saunders is offline
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If you grind on the files, you're going to burn the temper, no matter how careful you are. That is, unless you are slow grinding on a wet stone. The best thing to do is just what YAMAMA recommended -- make your knife, then harden and temper. With a file (carbon steel) it's not hard. Just get a torch and heat it until a magnet won't stick and quench in warm oil. Temper in the kitchen oven or a toaster oven. The steel will work easier if you anneal it, but it can be worked in the hardened state. You'll have to drill it with carbide drills if you try to drill it hardened, but it can be done. You'll probably quickly decide that annealing is the way to go.

Good luck, and welcome to the forums!


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  #4  
Old 12-17-2003, 11:02 AM
hagartyman hagartyman is offline
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Thanks for the reply. I do not have a way to reharden the metal so I was hoping that the grinding process would only slight lower the RC scale which is 61 for the files that I have. They do grind a bit tough though.

On of the major problems I am having with the files is the inability to drill through them. I have purchased a cobalt drill bit and the file tore it a new one.

Any suggestions?
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  #5  
Old 12-17-2003, 11:06 AM
hagartyman hagartyman is offline
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What is the easiest way to lower the hardness of the file to get it to a workable state?


How long should the metal be put in the oven for after hardening? At what temperature.

Many thanks for your advice!
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  #6  
Old 12-17-2003, 12:14 PM
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Threads about annealing:
http://www.ckdforums.com/showthread....ight=annealing
http://www.ckdforums.com/showthread....ight=annealing (Pay attention to Bob Warner's method)
http://www.ckdforums.com/showthread....ight=annealing

Heat Treating:
http://www.ckdforums.com/showthread....g+carbon+steel
There are others -- do a search.

Must read for newbies:
http://www.ckdforums.com/showthread....g+carbon+steel

I would also suggest purchasing some O1 and forgetting about the files. You're never going to be sure what the files are really made of, so your HT method may or may not be correct. With purchased steel, you know that the HT method is correct. O1 isn't expensive at all.

If you have any kind of torch, you have what you need for heat treating. A small oxy-acetelyne rig is perfect, but a Bernz-o-matic propane torch will work with a small one-brick forge.

One brick forge link:
http://www.ckdforums.com/showthread....ne+brick+forge

If you still can't figure a way to heat the steel to non-magnetic, you can always take the finished blade to a machine shop and get them to do the initial heat treat. You can then do the tempering. The tempering temperature depends on the steel that is being used. That's why I recommended buying the steel. If you use the files anyway, you'll have to experiment to find the correct temper temp.

BTW, if you want to find any more of these kinds of threads, use the button at the top of the page to do a search.


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Last edited by Jamey Saunders; 12-17-2003 at 12:16 PM.
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  #7  
Old 12-17-2003, 12:44 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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Jamey is right on the money. In addition to what he said, I would add that some files are case hardened, which means they have a hard surface but are soft in the middle. These are useless for knives. Forget the files until you know what you're doing. Buy your steel, O1 and 1095 or 1084 are very cheap and make great blades.

If you absolutely cannot harden the blades yourself, then consider buying some 440C stainless instead of the carbon steel. 440C is reasonable priced, available from any knife supply house in any size you might need, and it makes a very good blade. Then, you can send it out to Texas Knifemakers or any of several other places to get it heat treated for about $5. Unfortunately, it is hard to find a commercial heat treater that is willing to do carbon blades .....


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  #8  
Old 12-17-2003, 02:35 PM
David Peterson David Peterson is offline
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All of this is good advise. I'll throw my $.02 in here. I've made a couple of knives out of the old Nicholson files. They make fairly decent knives, but I found it's way too much work than it's worth. Finding a file for a $1 is great, but after annealing it, shaping it, and wearing out belts on the teeth it's just not worth it. I've been getting O1 really cheap, and the results are miles apart. Try some O1 and get a torch for $10 to heat treat it. For $20-$30 you can make a couple of very good knives.

-Dave
Dave@sagebrushcountry.com
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