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The Newbies Arena Are you new to knife making? Here is all the help you will need.

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  #1  
Old 12-05-2002, 01:39 PM
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Mosaic pins..?

I've always been confused about mosaic pins. I have always assumed they are simply a hubcap for another pin underneath.

Are these able to be used in place of a 'normal' pin? Do they get pressed to expand them or simple clamp and epoxy?

What guidelines are needed for either method (If there is either...)

Thanks,

Coop


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  #2  
Old 12-05-2002, 02:01 PM
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Mosaic Pins

Hey Coop! Check out the Mosaic Pin tutorial in the "How To" section maybe that will answer some questions.
Do a Google search I found some really good tutorials from there.
Nice contest entry by the way!
Vince


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Last edited by Vince; 12-05-2002 at 02:04 PM.
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  #3  
Old 12-05-2002, 03:21 PM
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Coop-

I'm using mosaic pins on my "Chef's" knives.*

So far I've been using pins I bought from TKS that are pre-made (and rather pricey). If you choose to buy these "designer" mosaic pins, they come in either 6" or 12" lengths which you cut down into individual pins just larger than the width of your handle.

They do take the place of regular pins,... they go all the way through the handle with the sides of the tube roughed and epoxied within the hole. Seems plenty sturdy to me.

Before I put the pins in, I use a trick which I seem to recall came from Bob Warner quite awhile ago...With a cutoff wheel from my Dremel, I make a slot in one end of each pin. After I put epoxy in the hole and insert the pin, I can then easily turn the pin with a slotted screwdriver and make sure the pattern on all the pins all orient in the same direction. When the glue hardens, you just grind down the rest of the pin flush with the handle and sand to a nice shiny finish

They are relatively easy and add a lot to the knife!

Dennis

Yeah Baby!

*My "Chef's" knife is now a carving set with matching fork. Quite by accident, I just discovered a retired master woodworker living less than 2 minutes from my house. He's making me a lovely box for the set, which I will set out on my table at the Baltimore Show and see if I can take orders.
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Old 12-05-2002, 05:03 PM
DC KNIVES DC KNIVES is offline
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I make my own.Just went to the local Ace hardware and got a decent selection of materials. A little trick to use on mosaic's as well as all pins is to rough up the exterior with sandpaper, files or a Dremel to give the epoxy something to bite on.Good luck,Dave
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  #5  
Old 12-05-2002, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
They do take the place of regular pins,... they go all the way through the handle with the sides of the tube roughed and epoxied within the hole. Seems plenty sturdy to me.
Thanks Dennis for answering part of my question.

Thanks Vince and Dave for steering me.

OK, I checked out the tutorial (again) and it offers nothing on how to fasten handles or cover pins in it.

I do not want to make them. For the price and variety that is already offered, I would be best served by purchasing them. These are a bargain comparatively. I've got other things I need to learn first... Like how to use them!!!!

Coop


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Old 12-05-2002, 07:12 PM
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Coop,

You already know how the pins are made from the tutorial.

I am not sure what you are making to need them and it would help if you shed a little light on that.

Mosiac pins are usually used on fixed blade knives. The bolsters are put in place and the pins peened and the tops ground off. Then the easiest way to do the handles is to epoxy one handle side onto the knife and let it cure. After it cures, drill through the tang (should already have a hole in it) and the handle material on the drill press. Then epoxy the other side of the handle on and let it set, then drill through the handle and tang all the way through the knife from the other side. After it is set you measure the thickness of the handle and cut your pins a little long. Go to that nice grinder you have and grind the sharp edges off of the pins. This makes them bullet shaped a little and helps them go through the holes. Rough them up with 60 grit paper (around, not lengthwise) and file a ring around the pin in the center. Then just smear epoxy all over the pin and inside the hole and slide (Tap) the pin into place, leaving some sticking out of both sides. Turn to orient the pattern the way you want it and then tape it in place by wrapping masking tape around the handle. Do the other pin and let it set up. The ring in the pins will help make a mechanical connection and not just a GLUE connection.

After it is all set up, FILE (not grind) the pins off level with the handle material. Take to the grinder and shape as desired. Be sure not to let the pins get hot or they will burn the handle material.

Hand sand and finish like you do your folder handles. If you buff, be sure not to buff the handle down leaving the pins high. The pins will be harder than the handle material and tend to buff off slower than the handle material. A light touch is needed.


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Last edited by Bob Warner; 12-05-2002 at 07:16 PM.
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Old 12-05-2002, 07:42 PM
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OK, now I'm on the right track. Somehow I understood them to be only decoration and that was problematic in understanding how to capture a scale with enough hole left for a cover pin.

This is why I asked this in the Newbie section. I'm still wet behind the ears to much of this!

Now, Bob, to answer your question as to their usage, I have a little fixed blade that I forged and profiled and ground from my ABS hammer-in. I need to figure out my handle attaching and possible bolster needs. Then the drilling and heat treating and the regrinding etc.

All this will be done by Feb.--my deadline for our $1.00 gentleman's bet. I need to get in gear!!! (Bob bet a dollar that I make my *own* knife by then. I've been dragging...)

Coop


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Old 12-05-2002, 08:59 PM
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Coop, to specifically answer a couple of your questions. Mosaic pins aren't usually expanded or compressed. If you do, the epoxy may come loose (inside the mosaic tube) and some of the deco pins inside may come loose. I learned this the hard way. If they do come loose, a little super glue will fix it. The mosaic pins should be a slightly snug fit into your scales and tang. Too snug of a fit in wood or natural material scales may cause cracking later when it moves with humidity changes. Most pins in handle material are not hammered or compressed unless you using micarta which can take more lateral force. Cut as close as you can, like Bob points out, expoxy and clamp. If you dovetail your bolsters, the pins provide a pretty solid mechanical lock.

Pins in bolster material on the other hand, are (in my shop anyway) hammered with the biggest #### hammer you can lay your hands on. I use a 4lb mini-maul after peening the pins for a tight fit. I smack them 4 or 5 times and then once just to boot. It's the only way I've been able to blend the pins into the bolsters. Others, like Don Cowles, use a more elegant method. Look for a post on this from him. Just to be clear, this is using 416ss for the bolster and pins.

FYI, MSC carries 416ss precision ground pins in small lengths and many different diameters in 100 count boxes. Very slick and is the way I'll be going when I use up my current pin stock. Consider using 1/8 to 3/16 diameter pins depending on the scale of your knife. I use 3/16's for the bolsters with every intention of blending them into the bolster on polishing so they don't show. This is probably a tad big, 5/32 might be better but it's what I have on hand. 1/8 pins on bolsters might be a bit small when you try to peen them and then smash 'em in.
I use 1/8 pins on scale handles and all of my mosaic is home made and 1/4".
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Old 12-06-2002, 05:39 AM
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I peen pins in bolsters with a small ball pein hammer and go just until the bolster will not move at all when I TRY to move it. THEN, take it to the 24 ton press and squeeze it one time. You don't see the pins after that. The trick really is to be sure your pins are not to long when you start peening. If you use a 3/16" pin, leave no more than 3/16" sticking out to peen. If you leave them long, the pins want to bend and that moves the bolsters.


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Old 12-06-2002, 09:54 AM
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Again, thanks to all the respondents for your time explaining and offering your techniques. It's clear and good info.

Coop


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  #11  
Old 12-06-2002, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Coop747
Again, thanks to all the respondents for your time explaining and offering your techniques. It's clear and good info.

Coop
Coop, how are you finding this compared to folders? Just curious what your experiences are.


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Old 12-06-2002, 12:33 PM
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Martyn, the 'folder guys' don't have a clue...

How can you trust someone who's work breaks in the middle...

Coop


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Old 12-06-2002, 01:21 PM
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LMAO


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Old 12-07-2002, 11:53 PM
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Pin size ?

Which is the advantage of using 1/8 or 3/16 pins for the bolster? Until now I used 3/32 pins, should I do take larger ? And which is the ideal number to use for a medium size knife (3 or 4 it is enough?)

Thanks !
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Old 12-07-2002, 11:58 PM
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I use two 1/8" pins for a small bolster.


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