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The Newbies Arena Are you new to knife making? Here is all the help you will need.

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  #1  
Old 02-20-2015, 02:07 PM
AllanBeasley AllanBeasley is offline
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Fat Boy Snub Nose Skinner (First of a lot of things)

I've been waiting to do this for a while now, and the new Grizzly showed up this morning. Once I made it through the assembly I had to test it out. I grabbed a random bar of steel from the driveway, cut the rough profile out with an angle grinder and got to work on shaping the blade on the Grizzly. I remembered enough of what Paul Brach taught me to get a passable grind on the shoulder area and took my time with everything. The gut hook may or may not be acceptable as a gut hook, all I know is I need a better process for that. After it was ground and the pin holes drilled I tossed it in the forge to temper it. The scales are spalted stabilized poplar. I did the finish work on a Ken Onion edition Work Sharp knife grinder, and sharpened it half to death. It peeled some impressively thin shavings off a stray branch outside when I was waiting on my youngest one to get off the school bus. This SHOULD be for a close friend, he asked for something SUPER durable and as slip=proof as possible, hence the protrusion at the end of the tang. I know there are some imperfections to work out, but it came out WAY better than I thought my first would off a whole array of new tools and it's WAAAAAAAY better than that oddball deer antler/leopardwood file knife I made last year. I hope to be on to my next one ASAP. Thanks for looking, no criticism will be taken personally. I know I have a lot to learn before I'm making what I REALLY wanna be making.







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  #2  
Old 02-20-2015, 03:03 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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I think it looks pretty reasonable as an early effort. I'd be a little concerned about the part where you grabbed some steel off the drive way - I hope you know what it was. Its very important in the early stages of learning to heat treat your blades that you know what steel you are working with. It might help you to review one of the Sticky threads at the top of this forum called " BEFORE You Heat Treat Your First Knife" . Its the difference between making a knife and making something that only looks like a knife. I can already see that you want to do good work and you are off to a good start ....


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Old 02-20-2015, 03:06 PM
AllanBeasley AllanBeasley is offline
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One of my next stops is the Metal Supermarket nearby. I'm almost entirely sure it was Mild structural steel, it came from an older steel building. It'll get put through its paces at some point to see if it ended up being a good knife or a paperweight.
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Old 02-20-2015, 04:25 PM
Doug Lester Doug Lester is offline
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If it was mild structural steel then I'd tell you friend that he will have to wait for the next one. I doubt that the knife will hold an edge well. At least you got to give your new grinder a try and you're evidently showing some progress in making knives.

I would be careful at the metal supermarket if you don't know what steel you are looking for. You could end up with some more structural steel or a high carbon tool steel that will be difficult for you to heat treat without a heat treating oven. Of course, being that you do stock removal, you could see if they have 440C stainless steel which you could send out for heat treatment. If you want to do your own heat treating then I would suggest something like 1080 or 1084. They're both forgiving steel and can be austinized for hardening with a simple gas forge and canola oil as a quenchant. You can temper them in a kitchen oven or, if the wife doesn't like to share, a toaster oven.

If you can't find those alloys locally then you could try Alpha Knife Supply or The New Jersey Steel Baron.

Doug


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  #5  
Old 02-20-2015, 07:00 PM
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Hunter10139 Hunter10139 is offline
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Yeah I would definitely listen to Ray and Doug. Mild steel won't get you anywhere and mystery steel from a metal supermarket doesn't sound reliable. I would go online to either the new jersey steel baron(Aldo Bruno) for 1084 or Texas knife supply for 1080.

Make sure the first thing you do is break a heat treated knife and look at the grain. Then break a nicholson file and compare the grain size. It sounds painful but take it from someone who didn't do this to begin with. Keep heat treating and breaking knives until the grain looks similar to the file.


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Old 02-20-2015, 11:40 PM
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ricky_arthur ricky_arthur is offline
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Do you want my honest opinion? Before you start another knife, read the stickies and look at 1000 pictures of knifes. Google images can provide that for you in very little time. Then ask yourself why they all have many things on common?

Your handle choice was good, but a waste on mild steel. the fact that you beveled the top of the scales before glueing shows good attention to detail. The gut hook shows your not affraid to try hard things. Your work is about what most of our first knives look like, nothing wrong with that, I've certainly made knives that came out worse. But your design looks like someone who never used a knife might envision, from the hatchet grind to the finger pinching handle angles.

What do you want in a knife? Start there. You probably want it to cut right? Well you need hardenable steel with a proper heat treat for that for starters. You need an edge that will facilitate easy cutting, a small knife with a splitting maul taper simply wont cut anything as well as a proper grind angle will allow. There is alot of leeway in what will work OK for a grind angle and then there are narrow windows of proper angle on knifes with a purpose, want to slice? Make it thin, very thin. Want to batton? A little thicker and a little steeper angle.

Handles? soft curves, no sharp edges or corners. spend 5 minutes carving or cutting with a knife with edges or corners and you will understand.

The things I suggested you do are things I still do before I start any new knife design. I look at hundreds of pics, pick out the features they have in common and ask my self why? Then I grab either a piece of paper or just a piece of steel and start trying to combine all those attributes. Sometimes I get it, sometimes its a swing and a miss. But each one gets a little better.
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Old 02-21-2015, 08:07 AM
AllanBeasley AllanBeasley is offline
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The pictures are a good idea for sure. This did end up as a project of imapatience, I HAD to play with the new Grizzly as soon as I cut and scraped my hands up assembling it. Monday I plan to go get better flat bar of the right steel that is an appropriate thickness. Believe it or not the shape was a pretty effective emulation of a lot of skinners I've seen from Alaska and a few other places. I also wonder if the sheer thickness will hurt it as a skinning knife, I don't plan on doing one that thick again unless I'm making a mauler of some sort. The steel WAS set aside for playing on the forge and it was the only thing I had on hand to test run with before the school bus got here.
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  #8  
Old 02-21-2015, 04:51 PM
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ricky_arthur ricky_arthur is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllanBeasley View Post
The pictures are a good idea for sure. This did end up as a project of imapatience, I HAD to play with the new Grizzly as soon as I cut and scraped my hands up assembling it. Monday I plan to go get better flat bar of the right steel that is an appropriate thickness. Believe it or not the shape was a pretty effective emulation of a lot of skinners I've seen from Alaska and a few other places. I also wonder if the sheer thickness will hurt it as a skinning knife, I don't plan on doing one that thick again unless I'm making a mauler of some sort. The steel WAS set aside for playing on the forge and it was the only thing I had on hand to test run with before the school bus got here.

It's not so much the thickness of the steel, although it was extra beefy for a knife that size, but more the abruptness of the angle. A blade that thick would have to be a full flat grind to be a decent slicer. I prefer 5/32 to work with, many like 1/8 but I find it actually harder to get a good grind cause before you get a full flat you are already getting thin. It can be done, but its harder when you are starting.
I can certainly understand the excitement and wanting to make SOMETHING, ANYTHING when you have a new piece of equipment in the shop.

Last night my brother dropped off the mini mill I had him pick up that I found on the classifieds where he lives (5 hours from me) I was uber excited to mill someting, but the vice had no bolts, I had no bolts to secure it to the work table and I don't have the end mill size i need for guards, so I reluctantly left it for another day. Today is so Busy I wont be able to touch it till tomorrow.
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Old 02-21-2015, 05:59 PM
AllanBeasley AllanBeasley is offline
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Oh, a new forge and tongs showed up later that afternoon. I've been full tilt for the last two days. The knife I just finished is still rough around the edges but it was FUN to make.
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Old 02-21-2015, 09:20 PM
Doug Lester Doug Lester is offline
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I thought that you were strictly stock removal. Forget about my suggestion of 440C. Definitely not a steel for forging by beginners.

Doug


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Old 02-21-2015, 10:36 PM
AllanBeasley AllanBeasley is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Lester View Post
I thought that you were strictly stock removal. Forget about my suggestion of 440C. Definitely not a steel for forging by beginners.

Doug
Actually I'm working on both and figuring out what gets me the best reaults. I LOVE forging but results require LOTS of practice. Stock removal is a little more natural fit for my current skill set, but I'm JUST starting with it. And my first legit full stock removal blade was that one. I will be buying steel exclusively for stock removal Monday morning after the kids are on the bus.
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