MEMBER ITEMS FOR SALE
Custom Knives | Other Knives | General Items
-------------------------------------------
New Posts | New PhotosAll Photos



Go Back   The Knife Network Forums : Knife Making Discussions > Custom Knife Discussion Boards > Knife Making Discussions > The Newbies Arena

The Newbies Arena Are you new to knife making? Here is all the help you will need.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16  
Old 06-29-2016, 04:24 PM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: ny
Posts: 1,438
ok thanks ray.... i am exploring options for all the different finishs that are out there that link to the knife that was etched was awesome looking i am in the middle of a batch of 440c blades but when i am done i am going to make a 1084 knife just to try that etch finish....i did order the sand blasting set up i was hoping they would have it in stock at the store closest to me but no luck so had to order...hey ray you got that same set up right how much AO will it hold on the description it says GALLONS but the stuff is sold in pounds not sure how that translates math aint one of my good points ....unless its money
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 06-29-2016, 05:46 PM
Ray Rogers's Avatar
Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
Founding Member / Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Wauconda, WA
Posts: 9,840
I don't really know how much one of those cabinets hold. As I recall, I bought one container - a 5 gal bucket, I think - of AO when I got the cabinet. It took less than that to fill the cabinet. Of course, over time I lost some of the AO and had to refill from the bucket. The bucket is empty now but the cabinet still has plenty in it. That's been 17 years but not many knives got that treatment.

For what its worth, I experimented quite a bit with various baked on finishes and generally cannot recommend them or any other type of add on finish for a blade. That includes any form of anodizing, nitriding, oxidized, or baked on finish. Very few of them actually look good when first applied, at least not nearly as good as a well finished blade should look. Some are very tough but none are tough enough that they can't be scratched and scraped so they end up looking pretty rough fairly quickly. Unless the absolute highest priority that you have for a blade is both that it has to be carbon and you know it will be used in a way that will definitely cause heavy rusting quickly and preventing that rust is more important than how the blade looks I would not make a habit of using any of this type of finish......


__________________

Your question may already have been answered - try the Search button first!






Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 06-30-2016, 08:18 AM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: ny
Posts: 1,438
ok thanks yeh i was going to ask does the AO last forever (not from loosing it) but i mean does it break down (like a AO belt would) at any point and become un usable. But if your still on the same bucket for 17 years i think that answers the question. when i was ordering i wasnt sure on this they had either 25 pounds for $33 or 50 pounds for $45 so i just got the 50 since it worked out to be cheaper (per pound) so i guess that will be good for a while i think i read somewhere that it can be recycled 3 times so once it goes through the gun 3 times its no good but again if you have been using it for 17 years i guess it still does the job for a long time. As far as the baked on finish (not now first i want to play with the sand blaster) but maybe down the road ill try to get a flat black one (on the right knife black looks very good) but that would be achieved in a factory but i may try the black once just to try it maybe make one for my self but i dont see my self making a habit of it at all i took a looked at moly coat dura coat cera coat and its very expensive for what it does so i dont think ill do it much maybe once just to do it. have you ever heard of people powder coating any knives? one of my cousins best friends has access and room to powder coat stuff i was thinking about asking him to do one for me but its a decent drive to get to him and i wont have my licence back for 2-3 months so wont be any time soon....
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 06-30-2016, 09:19 AM
Ray Rogers's Avatar
Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
Founding Member / Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Wauconda, WA
Posts: 9,840
As with everything that references a commercial manufacturing process such as sand blasting, drill and mill speeds, saw cutting speeds, etc context is extremely important. When they say 3 times through the gun they are thinking you are blasting some dirty rusty old piece of steel trying to clean it. That's what sand blasting is mostly used for. In our case, you aren't adding any crud to the sand because our steel is clean - it better be very clean. The AO does break down and become finer but that doesn't change the results much for our usage.

Powder coating is used on blades fairly often. It falls into the category I mentioned before with all the other coatings ...


__________________

Your question may already have been answered - try the Search button first!






Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 06-30-2016, 04:08 PM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: ny
Posts: 1,438
Ok so now i have another problem with the finish on the one i am working on. i guess its what i have heard some people call "orange peel" i have seen the term in reading before but skipped through it prity quick because it wasnt a problem i was having....now i deffinitly am and yeh the term fits deffinitly looks like a orange. of course now that it is a problem i cant find anything about it in any searches i have done so can some one enlighten me what is it? why is it there? can it be removed? or if anyone know anything i should read please point me in the right direction this is very ugly!
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 06-30-2016, 06:27 PM
Ray Rogers's Avatar
Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
Founding Member / Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Wauconda, WA
Posts: 9,840
What steel is it? Orange peel is rarely reported on anything but D2. I've never seen any sure fire explanation of what it is, maybe HT, maybe steel composition, no one seems to be certain about it. What they are certain about is that if its on there its pretty much going to stay there. You might obscure it with sand blasting but any fine finish or polishing just makes it worse ...


__________________

Your question may already have been answered - try the Search button first!






Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 06-30-2016, 07:24 PM
WNC Goater WNC Goater is offline
Skilled
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: NC Mountains
Posts: 470
The orange peel pattern you're seeing...what if any grinding are you doing AFTER heat treating? Are you just finishing with finer grits after HT or are you doing some final grinding after HT before moving to the finer grits? Also, what steel?


__________________
Find me on Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/gpopecustomknives/

Gloria In Excelsis Deo!!
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 07-01-2016, 09:22 AM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: ny
Posts: 1,438
algight i guess it can be many things....its 440c steel ALL grinding is done after HT all i do before the HT is the profile....at first i thought it might be something in the HT but when i hardened them i did 3 batches of 3 in the oven then everything goes in liquid nitrogen then this time everything was tempered low because the nitrogen was evaporating and i didnt want to just leave them and get stress factors then worked up to where it needed the Temper is where i thought the problem was because i have never had this problem and i also have never tempered low and worked up...however i have noticed this on 2 blades now but they were in different hardening batches and the others from one of those batches didnt have that problem and also were tempered in the same way....i guess i will have to leave a somewhat rougher finish on those 2 maybe one of the scotch brite belts will cover it up a little would be nice to know what i did wrong cause this stuff is really ugly
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 07-01-2016, 10:35 AM
Ray Rogers's Avatar
Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
Founding Member / Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Wauconda, WA
Posts: 9,840
You didn't necessarily do anything wrong. The problem could be in the steel itself ...


__________________

Your question may already have been answered - try the Search button first!






Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 07-01-2016, 11:10 AM
WNC Goater WNC Goater is offline
Skilled
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: NC Mountains
Posts: 470
I've had the "orange peel" pattern show up a few times with this current batch of 1095 from NJSB. I have ground down to a thin edge before HT with final finish following. A couple of times that subtle peel texture shows up. I've found if I grind with some heavier grits post HT working down to the fine grits and finally hand sanding, that texture seems to disappear. Which tells me that it is some surface HT artifact that is ground off if some heavier grits are used after HT before final fine grits.
I figure & conclude it is some scale or carbon deposits based on suggestions of others with experience.

Admittedly this "observation" comes from very limited experience so take it FWIW.

Having said that, if all your grinding is done post HT then that is all irrelevant.


__________________
Find me on Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/gpopecustomknives/

Gloria In Excelsis Deo!!

Last edited by WNC Goater; 07-01-2016 at 11:12 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 07-01-2016, 11:22 AM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: ny
Posts: 1,438
yeh i am going to try and figure out wich blade came from witch bar then maybe talk to them at njsb see if they have any thoughts on it figuring out what came from what may be easier said then done when i have close to 10 bars cut up
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 07-02-2016, 03:31 PM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: ny
Posts: 1,438
hey ray i know you said you had the same sandblaster maybe you can help it came today i dont know why AO wont be here till next fri but i went to test it i had a bag of sand (i know this sand is used for that cause my bro used to use it for auto body work) anyway the problem is no sand is coming out well not now but not alot at all i think alot more should be coming out of the nozzel i even sprayed it onto the black glove so i could see it and only a couple grains bouncing around in my hand any ideas?
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 07-02-2016, 04:48 PM
Ray Rogers's Avatar
Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
Founding Member / Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Wauconda, WA
Posts: 9,840
Your compressor needs to be set for at least 60 psi and needs to be able to deliver around 10 cu ft/minute to operate that cabinet. Even then, you won't see much sand coming out but you should see the effect on a clean piece of steel ...


__________________

Your question may already have been answered - try the Search button first!






Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 07-02-2016, 05:32 PM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: ny
Posts: 1,438
ill have to check the compressor its always been set to 100 so unless some one else messed with it and its 3hp so well over the limit of whats needed how long would you say (about) to spray one side of a knife with a consistent finish? there is some coming out but not much so yeh i can deffinitly see the knife change but at the rate i was going it would probilly take 15-20 mins just to get a even finish per side so 30-40 per knife that seems way to long to me i thought it would be a quick thing. i am just wondering about the set up maybe i got something wrong basiccly pour the sand into the bottom of the cabnet then the gun has 2 conections one goes to the air hose then they sent with it a clear rubber hose about 2 feet long (give or take a lil) so it said one end goes to the other conection on the gun then the other end of that hose attaches to a small metal pipe maybe 3/4 in diameter by 1 foot long (about) that pipe is called the syphon pipe and the other end of that just gets burried in the sand is that right? its the same as how a venturi burner works just replace propane with air and air with sand. to me it just doesnt seem like it would be powerfull enough to suck in the sand a burners only gota suck in air this seems like you got the air sucking up the sand in the same way i dont know doesnt seem right to me but then again i have never used a sandblasing cabinet before
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 07-02-2016, 06:12 PM
Ray Rogers's Avatar
Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
Founding Member / Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Wauconda, WA
Posts: 9,840
The setup sounds right but your sand might be damp or too large or otherwise too heavy for that cabinet. If the media is too heavy or too large the siphon won't be able to pick it up.

But, don't expect to see sand coming out in a thick stream as if it were a water hose - it doesn't work like that. It should take a few minutes to do each side of a moderately large blade. Three hp isn't proof of the compressor's ability but it should say somewhere on it that it can handle 90 psi continuously or it might say its rated for 10 cfm or better. Less than that can still work but the results will be more like what you are seeing and, of course, the correct media should make a noticeable difference when you get it .....


__________________

Your question may already have been answered - try the Search button first!






Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
art, blade, blades, carbon, coat, cold, custom, custom knives, dip, etch, flat, gun, home, hot, knife, knives, make, metal, powder, problem, sand, scratch, spray, stainless, supply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
grey oak whittler jdale The Newbies Arena 2 09-18-2012 08:29 AM
grey sheath Zimba The Sheath/Holster Makers Forum 1 01-22-2007 02:57 AM
silver\grey maple nicksknives Fit & Finish 3 05-17-2006 04:26 PM
Grey Cards cmitchd Knife Photography Discussion 9 09-05-2003 04:43 PM
French Grey Swafford Fine Embellishment 4 05-08-2003 07:53 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:51 PM.




KNIFENETWORK.COM
Copyright © 2000
? CKK Industries, Inc. ? All Rights Reserved
Powered by ...

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
The Knife Network : All Rights Reserved