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The Outpost This forum is dedicated to all who share a love for, and a desire to make good knives, and have fun doing it. We represent a diverse group of smiths and knifemakers who bring numerous methods to their craft.

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  #1  
Old 05-23-2001, 06:29 PM
MaxTheKnife
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Heat treating tutorial


I just wanted to make sure there was a need to go to all the trouble for this tutorial. It's going to be quite involved and I wanted to get a response from folks who really wanted one. Let me hear from you. Meanwhile, I'll be working on my presentation. Be prepared for a long read.
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  #2  
Old 05-23-2001, 07:40 PM
Bill Foote
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I for one would like to see your tutorial.
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  #3  
Old 05-23-2001, 08:17 PM
Rainy Raven
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Dispense thine wisdom, sir!
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  #4  
Old 05-23-2001, 08:56 PM
MIKE KOLLER
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Grasshopper says 'teach us ole great one'
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  #5  
Old 05-24-2001, 03:59 AM
Dave Larsen
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Heat Treating


What they said!
Dave
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  #6  
Old 05-24-2001, 05:43 AM
Lensmannn
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Definately Max! I have been thinking about posting a heat treat open question anyway. Such as: Why do some of you edge quench, while others quench the whole blade? Does it depend on the work or personal preference? Max I know you mentioned in a previous post that you learned in the school that edge quenching may not be the best solution. I'd definately like to know the wherefores and the why's of that. Teach on!

Lensman

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  #7  
Old 05-24-2001, 06:19 AM
MaxTheKnife
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That's why this could get complicated Lensman. There's no 'perfect' solution in heat treating. In fact, my instructor in the Intro calss (Kevin Cashen) left us with this final thought:

"There is no perfect method for all known knife steels. Each steel has it's own unique properties. So, I advise you to choose a steel with the qualities you like and go with that steel, and just learn the rest as you go". That's not a dead hard quote, just how I remember it.

So, my thrust in this tutorial will be concentrated on low alloy, carbon steel. In that category are two very excellent steels. 1084 and 5160. The heat treating techniques for those two steels are close enough that they are interchangable.

Kevin Cashen is a self admitted metallurgy geek. So, he tended to get a little technical with his lectures. But, in learning all the techno-babble, I was able to get a better 'grip' on the whloe heat treating process and what is going on inside the blade you're working with.

Now, I took almost 7 full pages of notes during the heat treating lecture. That's alot of notes for a slow writin peckerwood like me. If someone out there catches a glaring mistake, point it out to me. The last thing I want to do is pass out bad information. The main reason I want to do this tutorial is to get an open discussion started so we can all learn something from it. I would like to hear any and all comments and questions you guys may have. If I don't know the answer, I have lots of resources to go to and find the answer. Heat treating is probably THE most important step we take as knifemakers. A beautiful blade with a bad heat treat is like a nice new truck with a blown motor. It looks nice, but is absolutely useless for it's intended purpose.

So, If you make and sell knives for a living like I do, take heat treating seriously. This reminded me of a story that applies here. My step-dad, Bob Ogg bought a new Ford pickup back in '92. Now, he made knives for over 35 years and you can bet he was picky with the quality of his knives. He always made sure the customer got what he/she paid for.

He went down to the Ford dealer and found the model on the lot that he liked. He told the salesman "I want one just like that, only in fire engine red". "Yessir, Mr. Ogg, I'll get one on order for you". It came in two weeks later and Bob went down and picked it up and paid cash for it (knifemakers are rich you know). He drove that truck for one full year before he found out it was a 6-cylinder. He wasn't mechanically enclined, so he'd never popped the hood. Always let the station attendants check his oil and such.

All that time, he thought he had an 8-cylinder engine. He got what he paid for, he just didn't get what he wanted. We have to look at selling knives in the same way. Our customers are counting on us to deliver a quality knife with a good heat treat. They can't pop the hood on a knife to see what kind of heat treat went into it. That's completely up to us, the makers. Hell, even if you're giving a knife to someone, the heat treat still needs to be right.

Sorry for the ramble. I've got tons of blades to forge and heat treat. I'll be working on my tutorial as I forge today and hopefully I'll start on it by Saturday morning. Maybe sooner. I'll probably take it in shifts and post it as I go. It may take me a week to get it done. I'm looking forward to this because I'll learn more going over my notes again. I appreciate the opportunity to do this and hope it's worth your time.
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  #8  
Old 05-24-2001, 07:06 AM
Dana Acker
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Great idea. Thanks Max. Show 'em how it's done, Arkansan style. Pay attention, 'yall, Max is no lightweight.

Also it will get him in shape for the slab handle/cutler's resin tutorial he's going to do next--hint hint.
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  #9  
Old 05-24-2001, 07:40 AM
MaxTheKnife
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Hint taken Dana. I'll be working on a little bird and trout knife soon and I may use that handle technique if I can't find some good stag small enough for it. Come on down to Arkansas and you can be the photogragher and learn first hand. Just stop by on your way back from the nanner kingdom. Oh, and bring back some nice Honduras hardwood for us to play with
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  #10  
Old 05-25-2001, 10:26 PM
KandSKNIVES
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REALLY LOOKING FORWARD TO IT MAX.
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