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  #1  
Old 04-16-2012, 07:43 PM
Shotgun232 Shotgun232 is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 5
Questions about 1095 from a new knife maker

I am some what new to knife making, i have completed about a dozen knives, and i am in the process of making quite a few knives (blades that are ground, but not heat treated, since i haven't had a lot of time lately to finish the knives). I use the stock removal method, being careful to keep the blade cool while grinding. I am only using 1095 for Jantz supply (i do have some 5160, O1, and D2, but haven't tried them yet). I am currently working with 1/8, 3/16, and 1/4 inch thick steel. My questions lie in heat treat:
i have with all my completed knives achieved a razor sharp edge that will shave hair, however it is sort of hard to achieve, and does not last after mild use. I bring the blade up to non-magnetic for 3 minutes in my make-shift brick forge (using a blow torch with MAP fuel), then i quench in room temperature vegetable oil. I then temper at 400 degrees for 20 minutes. I have read some on this forum about 1095 (and i know that i am doing the process wrong) however i would just like the know what can i do to achieve a better heat treat, and temper for my 1095 blades?

I really want to make my knives better without going out and buying a forge, or expensive equipment, since I am just a student who likes the outdoors.
Thanks,
Mike
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  #2  
Old 04-19-2012, 12:27 AM
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GHEzell GHEzell is offline
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Location: North Alabama
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First of all, 1095 is not the easiest steel to work with. And a brick forge is not the ideal heat source for hardening. And non-magnetic is not hot enough...

1. I suggest buying your 1095 from Aldo Bruno ( http://njsteelbaron.com/ ), he gets large consistent batches and knows what we knifemakers want/need in our steel. 1095 from some sources has quality control issues and varies wildly from batch to batch. Consider switching to 1084, it is much easier to heat-treat with less than ideal equipment.

2. The problem with using a forge for heat-treating is that they generally like to run too hot to get a good soak, and there is no good way to know exactly how hot it is running, and they have a bad tendency to cause the point to over-heat before the rest of the blade catches up. A magnet will get you in the ballpark but the blade actually needs to be a bit hotter than that to get full hardness. I suggest learning about decalescence, it is a visible phenomena that takes place in steel when the steel reaches that perfect temperature, and is not that hard to spot once you know what it looks like. Decalescence is much more reliable than a magnet for determining when to quench. Once the blade becomes non-magnetic it is time to start watching for it and once the shadows are gone (you will know what I'm talking about once you see it happen), quench the blade.

3. Try warming your oil to about 120 degrees, the warmer oil will actually cool the blade faster. Canola is about the fastest oil available at walmart, and you need speed with 1095.

4. 20 minutes is not really long enough to get a good temper on a blade. I temper 1095 at 450 for 2 hours, twice. Two hours might be a little bit overkill, but it doesn't hurt anything... You might want to start at a lower temp (400 is good) and test the blade afterward. If the edge chips, bump the temperature up 15 degrees and do it again. Keep repeating this until the edge no longer chips. To test the blade for proper tempering I like the brass rod test (a quick google search comes up with a good explanation of how this is done), it is a cheap but effective way to home in on the correct temper for any given piece of steel with a particular edge geometry.

Make a test blade, heat-treat it, get a piece of dry oak and whittle away for about 20 minutes, then test the edge for sharpness. If it is still sharp, keep whittling til it is dull. Take a magnifying glass and examine the dulled edge, it will either be rolled (too soft, not achieving full hardness in the quench, or over-tempered [not likely at 400]) or chipped(too hard, need to temper at a higher temperature... can also indicate that the grain is too coarse and the blade was over-heated in the forge). Kiss the blade goodbye, clamp about 1 inch of the point in a vise, and wearing proper protective equipment (I suggest a full face shield and chainmail), bend her til she breaks. Repeat until you have 1 inch sections of broken blade, and examine the grain of the steel. As a general rule, the finer the grain, the better. Break a dull file and compare the grain to that of the blade.

Things to research online: decalescence, brass rod test, grain refinement, Aldo Bruno.

I hope this was helpful.

One other thing, ovens are notoriously inaccurate, I highly suggest getting a good oven thermometer for use when tempering.


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A good friend told me one time about forging "What is there not to like, you get to break all the rules you were told as a kid, don't play with that it is sharp, don't play with fire, and don't beat on that"
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See some of my work.

Last edited by GHEzell; 04-19-2012 at 12:30 AM. Reason: one other thing
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  #3  
Old 04-19-2012, 12:35 AM
metal99 metal99 is offline
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Great advice I bought some 1095 and I sure hope its one of the good batches.
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  #4  
Old 04-19-2012, 09:20 PM
Shotgun232 Shotgun232 is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Minneapolis, MN
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Dear GHEzell,
Thanks for the advice i will sadly make a knife to destroy. one question though, what do you mean by the term "soak". Also how is the O1 from Admiral Steel? Given my current system of heat treating. Also is Jantz a good knife making supplier (particular for steel)? As i have been using them every since i started, and i have bought several hundred dollars worth of steel from them (particularly in 1095).
Thanks,
Mike
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Old 04-20-2012, 06:30 PM
metal99 metal99 is offline
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Shotgun, What they mean by "soak" is leaving the steel sit at a certain temp for a given period of time. O1 needs a longer soak time then the plain 10xx steels it is an oil quench deep hardening steel that usually can be quenched with success in a slower oil. But for the 1095 you need to cool really fast parks#50 is supposed to be very good for 1095 and if you cant get that then vegi or canola oil should work also. Do you have any knife makers near by? I'm sure there is somebody out there that would go through the procedure with you in person.
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  #6  
Old 04-20-2012, 09:40 PM
Shotgun232 Shotgun232 is offline
 
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Location: Minneapolis, MN
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Metal99,
I will look to see if there are any other knife makers in my area, but one question: how do i do that on this forum?
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  #7  
Old 04-20-2012, 11:26 PM
metal99 metal99 is offline
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I'm not sure if you can search for people in your area on the forum but a quick google search for knife makers in my area got me some good results.
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1095, advice, art, blade, brass, edge, forge, grinding, heat treat, knife, knife making, knives, new knife maker, steel, supply, temper


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