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The Newbies Arena Are you new to knife making? Here is all the help you will need.

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  #1  
Old 03-05-2015, 08:52 PM
AllanBeasley AllanBeasley is offline
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Just messing with flappy wheels and sketchy steel.

While waiting for the new belts to show up for the Grizzly I got bored and figured it woud be a good day to test out the workflow in the new corner I moved my workshop into and get some time in on shaping blades. Cut the basic shape with a cutoff wheel, finished the outline on the bench grinder and touched it up on the Grizzly. While messing with it I figured with nothing to lose I'd try out doing all of the other stuff I'd normally do on the belt sanders with a pair of flappy polishing wheels on the angle grinder. It STARTED just seeing how clean of a finish the wheels would give me and I realized I could make a bevel so why not? I won't be using this as my go-to process, the curve of the edge is pretty crazed from the natural instability caused by freehanding it. I am otherwise really partial to the shape of the blade, I think with some refinement I could make one that looks great and can be repeated. Then again if my taste in music and movies is to be believed my taste shouldn't be trusted. I threw it in the forge and quenched, the steel was just listed as "Welding Steel" at Ace with no other markings so I couldn't check to see if there was an easy follow-up heat treatment. It seemed to respond well, cleaned up well afterwards. I got it scaled up with red and black Colorply stuff (Did the scale work on the sanders as per usual) and sharpened it as well as humanly possible. It's amazingly light and it did not complain one bit going after dried branches. Cut deep, cut clean and peeled beautiful shavings drawing it down the branch. It's gonna be a great bush toy. Since I can't guarantee the integrity of the blade comfortably it won't be up for sale. I can only think of a couple of people that would buy it anyhow and they're BROKE.

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  #2  
Old 03-05-2015, 09:27 PM
Doug Lester Doug Lester is offline
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Welding steel is a low carbon structural steel without enough carbon to really harden. You could maybe get it a little harder but not enough to hold an edge for any time. At least you had fun learning what your tools will do for you.

Doug


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  #3  
Old 03-05-2015, 09:41 PM
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Hunter10139 Hunter10139 is offline
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If it was called welding steel then I'm guessing its just generic steel, probably low carbon. I can tell you from experience that heat treating that type of steel will not really increase the hardness(had to try for work). If it does at all it won't be even close to an acceptable level for a knife. If you want scrap steel to make knives try quality old files and old leaf springs. You can probably find these at flea markets and scrap yards. Really all you're probably gonna get from that welding steel that's useful is practice grinding bevels. You can create a burr on any steel that will cut and slice wickedly. However, this edge will not hold up long.

If you really think that this steel can be heat treated why not test it? Just make a small sample piece and heat treat like you have been. Then, clamp it in a vise and try to break it. If it bends permanently its no good. If it breaks and the grain is huge, its no good. However, if it has a grain so fine you almost can't see it maybe you have something that will work. Good luck man and keep up the good enthusiasm.


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  #4  
Old 03-05-2015, 10:17 PM
AllanBeasley AllanBeasley is offline
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Originally Posted by Hunter10139 View Post
If it was called welding steel then I'm guessing its just generic steel, probably low carbon. I can tell you from experience that heat treating that type of steel will not really increase the hardness(had to try for work). If it does at all it won't be even close to an acceptable level for a knife. If you want scrap steel to make knives try quality old files and old leaf springs. You can probably find these at flea markets and scrap yards. Really all you're probably gonna get from that welding steel that's useful is practice grinding bevels. You can create a burr on any steel that will cut and slice wickedly. However, this edge will not hold up long.

If you really think that this steel can be heat treated why not test it? Just make a small sample piece and heat treat like you have been. Then, clamp it in a vise and try to break it. If it bends permanently its no good. If it breaks and the grain is huge, its no good. However, if it has a grain so fine you almost can't see it maybe you have something that will work. Good luck man and keep up the good enthusiasm.
THAT is a good idea. I was scared it was going to be brittle. I can basically cut a few strips up to test like that pretty easily.
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  #5  
Old 03-06-2015, 05:54 AM
jmccustomknives jmccustomknives is offline
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As said by others, "welding steel" sold at retailers isn't even close to being a knife quality steel. More than likely it is the cheaper A-36. This type of steel is like rebar in the fact that it is just remelt, but it is made to a standard for strength, A-36. Because of this the steel can be all over the place in as much as what's in it. You can get some that will harden in a quench, although the carbon content is probably going to be close to .3% it is still way to low to be of use as a knife.
As one gentleman stated, a good source for used steels is leaf springs and files. Remember on those old steels there may be defects from the years spent in its past life.

Better yet, go ahead and buy some new stock and take the guess work out of the equation.
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  #6  
Old 03-06-2015, 06:28 AM
AllanBeasley AllanBeasley is offline
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Originally Posted by jmccustomknives View Post
As said by others, "welding steel" sold at retailers isn't even close to being a knife quality steel. More than likely it is the cheaper A-36. This type of steel is like rebar in the fact that it is just remelt, but it is made to a standard for strength, A-36. Because of this the steel can be all over the place in as much as what's in it. You can get some that will harden in a quench, although the carbon content is probably going to be close to .3% it is still way to low to be of use as a knife.
As one gentleman stated, a good source for used steels is leaf springs and files. Remember on those old steels there may be defects from the years spent in its past life.

Better yet, go ahead and buy some new stock and take the guess work out of the equation.
I still have about two feet of 1080 in the shop. I've gotta make a run for leaf springs or something, funds won't be free to buy more 1080 until some of my current stock sells. I was just bored yesterday and didn't want to waste $20 in good steel just screwing around.
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  #7  
Old 03-06-2015, 09:14 AM
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ricky_arthur ricky_arthur is offline
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At this point selling your knives should not be a consideration. You cannot yet provide a reasonably quality product. I gave away the first 25 knives I made. And threw away several before that. Once people's experience with the knives I gave away started to create a demand, I started selling a few knives. I still put at least half of the knives I make into the scrap pile or give away pile. Selling a product that has no reasonable expectation of quality is bad form. If you are still unsure of the difference between mild steel and knife quality steel you are not yet ready to even give the knives away as knives. JMO.
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  #8  
Old 03-06-2015, 10:28 AM
AllanBeasley AllanBeasley is offline
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Originally Posted by ricky_arthur View Post
At this point selling your knives should not be a consideration. You cannot yet provide a reasonably quality product. I gave away the first 25 knives I made. And threw away several before that. Once people's experience with the knives I gave away started to create a demand, I started selling a few knives. I still put at least half of the knives I make into the scrap pile or give away pile. Selling a product that has no reasonable expectation of quality is bad form. If you are still unsure of the difference between mild steel and knife quality steel you are not yet ready to even give the knives away as knives. JMO.
Bingo. That's why they haven't been listed for sale. I DID go torture test another piece of the weld steel while working over some 1080. It just bent without the first sign of a crack. Not surprising all things considered. I'm still working on learning enough basics to end up with a sellable knife, I'm fully aware that I'm not there yet. What IS for sale right now is either railroad spikes with a full disclaimer that they are primarily decorational and pre-made blanks I scaled with a disclaimer that they are pre-made knife blanks.

Last edited by AllanBeasley; 03-06-2015 at 10:30 AM.
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  #9  
Old 03-06-2015, 11:20 AM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is online now
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Even though the steel on that knife is less than ideal that knife could still teach you something about handle design. Take the knife out and start chopping stuff with it (it seems intended to be a chopper). Make sure your hand gets sweaty add a little goo to the handle to simulate sweat or blood (one guy I know used BBQ sauce). You'll probably find that the handle tapers in the wrong direction for a secure grip. That's not to say that it will necessarily fly out of your hand but you'll probably find room for improvement ...


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  #10  
Old 03-06-2015, 11:24 AM
AllanBeasley AllanBeasley is offline
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Originally Posted by Ray Rogers View Post
Even though the steel on that knife is less than ideal that knife could still teach you something about handle design. Take the knife out and start chopping stuff with it (it seems intended to be a chopper). Make sure your hand gets sweaty add a little goo to the handle to simulate sweat or blood (one guy I know used BBQ sauce). You'll probably find that the handle tapers in the wrong direction for a secure grip. That's not to say that it will necessarily fly out of your hand but you'll probably find room for improvement ...
I already noticed that. I took it outside as soon as it was done and went to town on a thick dried Kwanset Cherry branch. It cut wonderfully but it definitely wasn't the easiest blade to control because of the funky grip.
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  #11  
Old 03-06-2015, 03:19 PM
Doug Lester Doug Lester is offline
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Nothing teaches you faster than screwing up-but only if you pay attention. A mistake that you don't learn something from is a mistake wasted.

Doug


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  #12  
Old 03-07-2015, 12:05 AM
AllanBeasley AllanBeasley is offline
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Nothing teaches you faster than screwing up-but only if you pay attention. A mistake that you don't learn something from is a mistake wasted.

Doug
And if you write the results down it's called science.
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