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The Newbies Arena Are you new to knife making? Here is all the help you will need.

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  #16  
Old 07-11-2015, 06:21 AM
WBE WBE is offline
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I don't know any makers that are as you describe. I just find the show unremarkable, with unrealistic demands from the participants. Just another stupid reality show, with few redeeming qualities. There is very little in knife making to be learned from it, unless you want to learn what not to do, which you should already know. The only time these makers shine is when they are sent home to do things their way, with their equipment, and then it is seldom remarkable. The winner with the battle axe was interesting, but most of the shows remind me of the three stooges, except the three stooges are funny.
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  #17  
Old 07-11-2015, 07:10 AM
jmccustomknives jmccustomknives is offline
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I do admit, the production value is low but there is loads to be learned from it which is why this thread was created. The mistakes they make for good instruction for the newb as well as the more experienced.

As far as the demands being unrealistic, not so. There are many guys who given 6 hours can pump out a knife that could excel in those test. The thing is, most knifemakers don't work that way. They get in their box, and that's where they are comfortable. If you noticed, the guys who have done the best aren't those knifemakers. When a guy has limited funds he learns with experience what to use and how to do it.

I'll give an example. One the second show the two most experienced guys grabbed the bearings to make there knives. Now most of us know that the steel they are made from (51200) is a most excellent steel. But the guys who work in the back yard with limited equipment depending on experience would know that it is a very hard steel to work with under those circumstances. The guy that won it did so with a simple rasp. Probably something he's used a hundred times.
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  #18  
Old 07-11-2015, 08:04 AM
WBE WBE is offline
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Don't mean to seem antagonistic, but your post contradicts itself.
"The thing is, most knifemakers don't work that way. They get in their box, and that's where they are comfortable. If you noticed, the guys who have done the best aren't those knifemakers."
"The guy that won it did so with a simple rasp. Probably something he's used a hundred times."
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  #19  
Old 07-11-2015, 08:19 AM
jmccustomknives jmccustomknives is offline
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Not contradictory in any way. When a newb comes on here, what's the first thing the experienced/professional guys tell him? "Always use new steel". Why? That's what they use to get consistent results. If that's all a person ever uses, and will never touch "junk" steel then they are already at a disadvantage. If they have a bunch of patterns on the wall, and that is all they ever make then that is a disadvantage. ( in this kind of contest)
He wasn't in their box. And that is the box I'm referring too.

Debate is good. Others will see this thread and our friendly banter and might look into it themselves. Hopefully something can be learned, if not from the show then from the commentary. And that's a good thing.

Keep the anvil ringing!


Oh, as far as my box. I wouldn't have touched the rasp. Why, I feel that forging on something with deep cut teeth like that will cause defects. He proved me wrong.
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  #20  
Old 07-11-2015, 09:56 AM
WBE WBE is offline
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Yes, experienced pros will tell a beginner to use new, and known steel, and you think that's a bad thing, because that allows consistent results?? IMO, that is a very odd statement for a knife maker to present. Once one masters a particular steel to his satisfaction, he is free to move on to another if he wishes. Patterns are bad? The late Bob Loveless might disagree. Settling on one particular steel is bad? Ed Fowler uses 52100 almost exclusively. I don't believe either were, or are, at any disadvantage in knife making. Knife making is not a game, nor is it necessary to play games on tv to be a good knife maker. What advantage is there to making blades from unknown junk steel? That is something best left to a hobbyist that isn't making to sell, and doesn't mind wasting his time.
"Oh, as far as my box. I wouldn't have touched the rasp. Why, I feel that forging on something with deep cut teeth like that will cause defects. He proved me wrong."
No. He did not prove you wrong. You are right! He was lucky. A key word in your statement is "will". It should be "can", or "quite possibly", and not worth the risk in the real world if making to be sold. That the knife did not fail then, does not mean it won't fail at a later time, under different circumstances.
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  #21  
Old 07-11-2015, 10:54 AM
jmccustomknives jmccustomknives is offline
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Please, don't read me wrong. I'm not saying working with known steels is a bad thing. Nor using patterns. If a knifemaker is doing it as a buisness then it is the only way to do it.

What I am trying to express is the fact that there is a broad base of materials. In something like this the person who has knowledge of working many steels will have the best chance to succeed. If someone only works with 440C he would never have a chance at this. It is good for new smiths to learn a material but better to understand the material.

And that is the point of the thread. In the failures we get to see the mistakes and hopefully we can avoid them. The forging below temp, stress risers and not understanding the metallurgy of the steel we are working with. As bad as the production quality of the show is, it still puts bladesmithing in a good light, unlike that show about giant swords. That one gave me a headache. Talk about the stooges.

In as much as the file, I agree. I did a test forge on a small file and broke it. Sure 'nuff, there were inclusion from the teeth being pushed in. But that doesn't mean now I don't grind the teeth off and forge it.
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  #22  
Old 07-11-2015, 11:50 AM
WBE WBE is offline
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Well, I'll keep watching it. If for no other reason, for a laugh or two, and shaking my head gets the kinks out of my neck.
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  #23  
Old 07-11-2015, 01:25 PM
jmccustomknives jmccustomknives is offline
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Lol, pop in on the thread and put your two cents in. That's how we all learn.
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  #24  
Old 07-12-2015, 08:30 AM
jemoran jemoran is offline
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Reality shows are meant to be controversial, so I guess they scored on that one.

The interesting part to me is how the makers accept the challenge of working outside of there comfort zone, and how ingenuity not technology is used to solve problems... The winner used a wheel hub and hair blower to forge a battle axe. When the wheel hub was too small he deployed the satellite dish.

I dont think there is much to be learned about the technology of knife making, but I'll watch another episode. (If I can stay up that late).

John
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  #25  
Old 07-16-2015, 05:18 AM
jmccustomknives jmccustomknives is offline
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Well, I watched the latest episode and I must say the quality of the smiths really shot up. There wasn't anyone who didn't belong. I was bummed they didn't test the knives though.
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  #26  
Old 07-17-2015, 01:29 PM
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Hunter10139 Hunter10139 is offline
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Yeah, I recently watched that episode. I was so disappointed to see the russian disqualified in the first round. It looked like that dagger he was working on was going to be epic.


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  #27  
Old 07-17-2015, 02:08 PM
RedstickJP RedstickJP is offline
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Yah it looked great. He had plenty of time to measure it and grind off the extra length...but instead he sat there. Such a shame.
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  #28  
Old 07-24-2015, 03:42 PM
WBE WBE is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmccustomknives View Post
Well, I watched the latest episode and I must say the quality of the smiths really shot up. There wasn't anyone who didn't belong. I was bummed they didn't test the knives though.
I have to admit, the last two episodes were much more watchable. I hate to take pleasure in another's misfortune, but I was a tad bit tickled when the "expert" Japanese blade maker's hamon failed, after he had bragged that he had that part sewed up.
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  #29  
Old 07-24-2015, 07:11 PM
jmccustomknives jmccustomknives is offline
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Well, from the promo's it looks like they will be can welding on the upcoming episode. This should get interesting, I have never can welded and would probably make a bomb.
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  #30  
Old 07-25-2015, 05:45 AM
WBE WBE is offline
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OK. What is "can welding"?
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