clues you are being Scammed for your money or your knife!

[tmickley]

I thought we'd start a thread on what techniques scammers use and what clues you might use to detect them. These 'clues' certainly aren't absolute. Some one is going to get upset some of these clues fit one of their best clients. If that is the case, speak up and tell us what differentiates them from a scammer...

Any broken English is immediately suspect. Awkward or bad grammar is almost always a dead give away. There certainly are good foreign knife buyers and English is not their native language. These people know that and often comment about their English and usually offer references. Scammers would like you to believe they speak English as their primary language to get you to trust them.

A free email address like hotmail or yahoo. These email accounts are almost impossible to trace for people like us. If Interpol wanted to, they could trace them easily but try to get them interested in your $500 knife problem.

A credit card number sent via email. No one that has any knowledge of the internet sends credit cards via non-secure email.

An email that is very generic and lacks detail about the item they are asking about or the website where they saw it.

A lot of talk about payments or the transaction instead of the item.

They ask you what the price of your knife is in their email when it was clearly listed. This is either a spambot that automatically gathers information and asks you about your knife, like a spam email or a 'farm' that sends out hundreds of generic inquiries.

An offer to send you money, a cashiers check, a money order, a bank draft, an official sounding check of some sort for over the amount of the purchase. They want you to send the extra amount back with the knife and they will offer you a little extra for your hassle. The 'check' is going to bounce no matter how good it looks. These are professionals that have high end printing equipment so the 'check' will look very good. They want you to ship the knife and the money before it comes back as counterfit.

They send you a credit card number and you check on it by calling Visa. The credit card comes back as declined. They offer to send you another number.

Here is the latest scam email I just received. It's a bit more polished than average but the clues are still there:

Hello,
I am Martins Knight a resident in UK. I am mailing in respect of your advert on the website I'm interested in buying from you, but then, I wish to let you know the mode of payment through which I intend to pay you. In the same vein, I want your immediate response as regards the understated questions: 1. Are the items to be sold in good condition? 2.Is there any rebate or discount on the price of the item? 3.what is the final price of the items?

You are to note that the said final price excludes the shipping cost, as I intend to foot the shipping cost through the balance to be obtained after the payment must have been made.

MODE OF PAYMENT
The Mode of payment is through Money Order (United State Postal Money Order/Walmart) worth $3000. I want the balance left out of the money order to be sent to the shipper via western union. In conclusion, kindly send your name, address and contact telephone number(s) along in your response if you agree to transact with me. Thanks.

Many of the clues are in this one. Awkward English with short sentences. Asked about the price. They will send more than the amount and I am to refund the difference. There is more written about the money than the item. Generic reference to item and website. Normally, if some one wants to buy a knife from me, they talk about the knife, not the transaction.

That's a start, I'd invite anyone else to jump in with their examples or clues to look for.

[circlepknives]

You forgot another important feature Tracy, also seen in that message. Speed is usually a factor, they want a reply back immediately, and want the knife/knives sent immediately after payment. The faster the better. They also purchase multiple items 2-3+ while not a true indicator, I have yet to have a legitimate order where the person bought more than 2 knives at one time, and not big ticket items. I would say multiple big ticket items are also suspect, unless you know the person, then a scam may be precluded.

[tmickley]

Good point. They want it done urgently.

I posted an inquiry a few weeks back as to what the safest method was for getting paid and it seemed Western Union was the most irrevocable by consensus opinion. Basically, you tell some one to Western Union money to you (the nearest location to you and them can be found online), they send it, you go pick it up and if it's a scam Western Union is stuck with the bogus payment. It's expensive, starting at nearly 20 bucks and going up from there. Still, it's cheap insurance if you dealing with a suspect transaction. A scammer is going to balk at pay Western Union by saying they can't for some reason. At work (walmart) we Moneygram(tm) wire transfer money all the time and confidence scammers use Moneygram to get their money and when the victim complains, they are told to contact the police as Moneygram was paid cash and will not refund a fraudulant money transfer. I see this every month or so. A guy in Canada lost $2700 to a confidence scam just last month.

We need someone that has banking experience to tell us if a wire transfer can be revoked or recalled after it is complete.

[J.Arthur Loose]

I sincerely appreciate the effort, but I'm also concerned that we're potentially giving the scammers free advice...

Anyway, I usually just toss anything that seems fishy to me, but every now and then I reply with the likes of:

Dear Martins, (Gosh, are you a real knight?)

Easy Tiger! You'll get my "immediate response," when I've got the time! Your questions are in no way understated, but let me respond: 1. No, they're rusty and some have dirt or mud on them, but then they're meant for working and I test every one! 2. There is a rebate certificate enclosed with each knife good for $200 after you give me funds. 3. The final price is approximately $200 more than the listed price.

$3000.00? Excellent. I'll send "...the balance," to a frie... I mean, the shipper, of course! The knife will be sent, ahhh, "immediately." Deal?

[circlepknives]

Talking to the bank where I am once a wire transfer goes through to your bank they have no way to recall it. Once in your bank acct it is yours.

[Robert Mayo]

Guys
I have used western union before and in Canada anyways they only accept cash as a method of payment. Meaning if you want to send money to someone for whatever you have to pay the full amount in cash that way they do not get scammed and neither do you. I never asked if they pay out cash at the other end, but everyone i have wired money to through them has always got it.

Regards Bob