My latest attempt

[mrsjoan]

Hi Terrill,

I have been trying to learn to take pictures of John's knives. It is hard when you don't understand the concept of Aperture or White Balance and all the little numbers :confused:

Anyway, this is the best I have come up with on this knife. I figure if I get this one down I might try another (or not) but I'm telling you this picture taking is much like engraving---WORK, WORK, and MORE WORK!!!

This is blacklip pearl and the pearl is just as striking in "person" as it is on the screen.




I did have to touch the picture up in Photoshop with Auto Level. That and Auto Color is as far as I have gotten in Photoshop but between work and grandkids I must confess I haven't taken much time to apply myself to learning it.

[Buddy Thomason]

Hey Joan!
Nice job. I'm sure Terrill and others could give you some useful pointers but actually that's a really nice image (and knife - tell John!). That's a spectacular piece of Black Lip MOP too!
If you're not using the new CS version of Photoshop, I'd sure consider upgrading. To my dyslexic randomly wired brain, it's a lot easier to use than older versions I've used. And there is one feature that will make your life a lot easier. It's called Shadow/Highlight. For example:

Here's your image tweaked using only the S/H function in CS. Shadow (set at 60 for this picture) brings out detail in the underexposed darker areas and Highlight (I never set higher than 5, as I did here) not only reduces areas that are too bright but brings the overall image 'lighting' into better balance. I'm not claiming to have improved your image as I understand you may or may not like this particular result. I simply wanted to show you why I think CS is worth the money and how potentially powerful the S/H function can be. (There are other functions I like almost as well but lots of folks like S/H.)

Still, you're a much better photographer than you give yourself credit for! I really enjoyed meeting you and John at the South Eastern Custom Knife Show in Winston-Salem, NC several weeks ago. What a fun time!
Best wishes,
Buddy

[Buddy Thomason]

Addendum: There's another aspect of this S/H function that can be subtle but important. I have an artist friend (a wildlife painter) who has the same camera and Photoshop program as I do. We've done a lot of side by side, before and after comparisons like the above. He started teaching me about 'eye fatigue' and using basic photography skills along with Photoshop techniques to make images 'easier to look at.' It may not be evident right away but I've come to realize he's way right on this point.

Again, at least for me, the second image is easier on the eye. Why? For no other reason than my eye-brain connections and equipment don't have to work quite as hard digging detail out of the shadows and correcting the lighting balance issues. This is work our brains have to do all the time and it takes energy which is one of the many reasons we are tired at the end of the day or our head hurts after we spend too much time trying to 'see' in poorly lit work spaces etc. My friend, Dan D'amico, makes the point that 'art' (including pictures of knives!) has more esthetic power when the work involved in viewing it is reduced! I sure think he's right and it's been fun to play around with that concept.

Hey, if anybody likes wildlife paintings check out Dan's website:
http://dandamico.homestead.com/
If you enter Gallery I you can see one of his paintings that we are lucky to own - lower right corner - "Life Lessons" - lioness with cubs (click to enlarge).

[mrsjoan]

Thanks for the nice words Buddy, and the insight on how to look at the picture. Which is why things like this are WORK for me. One of the things I have learned in my lifetime of marriage to John is that I don't "see" how you guys who have a streak of atristic talent in you see. The joke (though with lots of truth), when we are at shows and asked what do I do in the "knifemaking business" is that John is the knifemaker and I can barely make supper. And let's just say that if I had to develop film to see the finished product I would have had to stop after one roll.

One of the things on my picture of the knife--and it has happened on each knife I have tried to photograph--is what looks like a dark grain on the top side of both the top and bottom bolster. When you enlarge the photo it is very visible--same when you print it. The only thing I have figured out would be to clone it out till I get better at taking the pictures. I was so fixed on that I did not even notice the lack of lighting on the underside of the handle. You cleaned that up really well--my Photoshop is not the CSversion.

Terrill, in my opinion, is an astounding photographer. He has always been very helpful with me in trying to help me as I make my efforts to support John in his craft. I remember hearing one time that a good photographer takes a good picture and then spends good time at the computer cleaning it up. John and I have been at Terrill's shop when he has photographed knives and I have seen Terrill go straight from the camera to print with very little time at the computer. That is my goal!

John has just finished a couple of little Abalone folders that will be my next attempt at "Hoffman perfection"

[Buddy Thomason]

Joan,
I agree that Terrill has a wonderfully simple approach and gets great results! Coop has it down as well. While you are waiting around for the experts to weigh in on this, I'll keep you company - but I'm certainly no expert - just a struggling student.

Regarding the dark areas you mentioned, my guess is it's a lighting issue until proven otherwise. Actually, by lighting I mean this - in the absence of enough light placed in the right places, you're probably getting reflections of dark things in the room and around the area where you're shooting. The shiny surfaces pick these up unless you totally flood the area with very diffused light.

Some folks will place mirrors in strategic areas and bounce light off the areas in question. I remember Terrill saying that he sometimes uses aluminum foil and Coop saying he uses white poster board or paper to do the same thing.

It took me a long time to manipulate my shooting situation to fix the problem because I was too lazy to take the time to concentrate (for maybe a few hours or a day) and do experiments where I actually took notes and figured out the best formula. So I did it haphazardly late at night when the time demands of work and family had ended for the day. It's better to get it all done at once because it's really not that complicated.

In the end the problem was overcome. Here's a link to another image I've posted on these forums illustrating that it's possible to avoid those dark reflections: http://www.knifenetwork.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=24640

Well, maybe the experts will show up soon and actually give you some useful advice since mine is probably worth exactily what you're paying for it.

[SharpByCoop]

My opinion's worth what you paid for it, too...

Joan, that looks fantastic. Sure, you can monkey around with it more and more, but it's MUCH better than the 'average' knife photo shot by a non pro. Whatever lightbox system Terrill has steered you towards is working just fine.

Like Buddy, I simply see a dark area that is not reflecting the bright diffuser. And there is nothing wrong with that.

I use an acrylic mirror now to reflect light back into the dark areas. It faces the work and the majority of light comes in from behind and above.

Buddy, one of the things I have been doing of late is ADDING in darkness to the images, after I start with a very crisp initial image. I don't mean I am washing it out first, but to get enough light to show everything, the darkest area's are a little grey and hazy. I use the 'Selective Color' box to add about 5% of black into an image, and the results have really been gratifying.

Allow me to be a contrarian... I digress with your friend in some instances. Shadowing gives depth and contrast makes for a more 'dramatic' image. There is emotional appeal conveyed in an image, and although some may not be so 'easy' on the eye, the intangible benefit of the drama is inescapable. Looking at his wonderful paintings, he is spot-on in wanting to make a nice, warm, consistently pleasing painting--one that you can feast your eyes on for many years. Knife photography is a little different animal. We are *trying* to convey clarity along with emotional ties. I want an image to come out and GRIP you with its clarity and textures. This is subliminal as well.

That said, I like your image even better. Fortunately there are still plenty of shadows to add depth.

I use PS 7.0 still. My fredmiranda.com PS shadow-reduction plug-in works exactly the same, and cost me only $15.00. I will upgrade soon enough, but I've found a workaround that is efficient without making me spring for the $300 upgrade fee. Without that plug-in, I would have upgraded immediately.

Coop

[mrsjoan]

Hey Coop, thanks for the plug-in information. I will check that out after the grandson's 5th birthday party today---which by the way--on the first day of deer season in Georgia yesterday, he and my son-in-law took down a 200+ pound 9 point buck. He was so excited. He told his mom on the phone (we were out taking care of birthday stuff) that his name was going to go on the plaque when they mount the head.

Now back from the brag shop to photography. Buddy you are right I have to set aside a block of time to work on this and be methodical about how I do things and what results I get. I have tried using both a mylar-type plastic sheeting and also white-white spandex. This picture was taken using the white-white spandex, but on the others I have taken I think the mylar-type plastic worked better. I think I'll go back to that and see if it works better with this particular knife. That and getting a better grasp of what the Aperture and White Balance and all that other "photography" stuff is, I'm hoping to come close to the work of Terrill and of course Coop (who also takes some of the coolest shots).

Thanks for the help guys. The Knife Network Forums is the best place to get help with anything!

[Buddy Thomason]

So Joan, Good luck with your pitchur takin' - and I agree totally that TKN Forums is the best place on the net to get help with anything having to do with knives!

Coop, Excellent point about the importance of shadows. I don't think we disagree at all. As you know I'm all about trying to capture the drama and emotion stimulated by these special handmade knives - something that's easier to communicate to the viewer if his/her brain isn't having to work extra to fill in the visual gaps created by lighting and exposure (and even focus) issues.

Also............."I use the 'Selective Color' box to add about 5% of black into an image, and the results have really been gratifying." Hey, that's a great tip. I'd never even thought about doing something like that. I think I've been trying to accomplish something similar by manualy adjusting 'levels' to make sure I had the entire light-to-dark dynamic range represented in the image. Can't wait to try your method. Something tells me it will do more of what I'm looking for. Thanks - much appreciated!

We aren't leaving much room for Terrill to show his stuff here. Maybe he'll drop in and do the mysterious 'Zen Master' thing. I love it when he does that!

PS: Both you guys will have FedEx boxes arriving from me in the next few days, as per our previous conversations. Even though my skills have improved with your help and that freely given by other forumites here, I recognize the fact that you guys are the best! And you both continue to raise the bar for the rest of us. Many thanks! BT

[Terrill Hoffman]

Sorry for being absent last week. Even photographers have to play. The first week of deer season and I'm the most expensive photographer in the country! It would really cost to get me out of the woods!
Nice shot Joan. You keep that up and John will have you going pro.
(and thanks for the compliments)
This is about the only type of photographs being taken last week.

[SKIVIE]

Way to go Terrill ! I love seeing animals taken with Black Powder. Ive got a Smoke Pole very similar to the one in the photo.

Congrats anyway.

Shane

[mrsjoan]

No way I'll go pro at this. This truly is to much like work. I can build an Access Database program and debug it in the lenght of time I spend trying to get one presentable picture. I'll post my next attempts. I got some reptile lights (not the ones that generate heat but simulate daylight and have poster paper to put on the sides of my tent. Maybe just maybe......

Thanks for all the help you guys. Again knifenetwork is the best place to go for the best in knives and help from the folks on the forums!

Thanks again.