5160 warped bar

[Blkst]

This is a great fourm with alot of support and advice.... Ray, Carl and Bill thanks again for all this help.

The 5160 will not stay straightened ... it does spring back to it's origional position ( bent )
So... into the fire to forge, normalize and anneal ( after I study the book about how to )

Carl, when I said primitive ...I meant the firepit in the backyard ; ) I will study my new book before I do anything with the 5160.

I may have a few more questions .......

[Crex]

Mike
Go for it, an adventure that never ends. I'm going to try to talk to the guys at Texas Knife and see what's going on with the state of affairs concerning 5160. I was told by one of them at the Blade shhow that all their blade blank steel was shipped annealed. Doesn't sound like your's was to me and that's something that should be up front info. Might ask whoever you buy from next time to verify steel condition as shipped. Makes a difference, as you now know.
Wasn't actually trying to single you out on the "primitive" thing. More of a general statement for folks new to the game. Most will wind up with Wayne's book(s) sooner or later. he has worked hard to get the information formatted so interested individuals, such as yourself, can try out knifemaking with minimal up front money and keeping things simple. A lot of folks interpret that as "primitive". The thermal physics and related geometrical science is anything but primitive, he just cuts through all the hard stuff so you can spend more time getting to the bones of making a knife and enjoying it. The deeper you get into it, the better you'll understand what Wayne's done for the regular guy.
My first effort was rebar, claw hammer, chunk of marble headstone, and pinecone fueled fire. Did everything backwards heat treat wise and still wound up with a very effective frog and snake killer......not to shabby for an 8 year old. Still proud of it even after my dad busted my chops for leaving his framing hammer down in the lower forty. Never knew it would get to this, still learning 52 years later.
I truly hope you get as much out of the adventure as most of us have (otherwise we wouldn't be here on this forum). Just remember to keep it fun.

[Blkst]

Carl,

My father lives in Jefferson, GA. Not too far from you. I'm a native of Savannah myself.

My very first knife was made when I was ten... from a 10 penny nail. My father wasn't pleased either ; )

[VaughnT]

Working with limited resources like the OP, I've found that retasking a propane sidewalk ice melter thing really makes annealing a lot easier.

I bought one of these: http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too..._266859_266859 and it really sends out a jet of flame! I was able to turn a leaf spring a nice orange heat in about ten minutes. Of course, I had to build a cinder-block liner for my bbq, but it worked! Went from hard spring to soft as you could please.

I left the spring to cool slowly overnight in a bucket of sand. I'm guessing it will work equally well to bring the steel to temp for hardening....

[Ray Rogers]

Vaughn,

The torch you have will work equally well for hardening the steel but it will also overheat the steel in a big hurry so some care will be needed. You want about 50 degrees above non-magnetic as a general rule, going higher than that can have adverse effects on the steel. I haven't looked at the specs for 5160 in a while but this is true for many of the carbon steels we use.

The most controllable way to use that torch is to get a round container like a piece of stove pipe, line it with wool, and stick the torch in from the side after removing the flared end. The body of the forge you just built will perform the same function as the flare the torch currently has but the torch will no longer function outside the forge body .....

[Crex]

VT
Unless the cinderblocks are fire rated for high temp (furnaces), they may explode on you due to trapped moisture. Normal "construction" cinderblocks were not mfgr'd with high temps in mind. Please use caution and don't get hurt, takes the fun out of things real quick.
Find you some fire brick to line your BBQ-forge.

[Blkst]

Just about ready to heat treat my first knife... I made it from flat stock I purchased from Tractor Supply Co.

Going to try the method from Scott "Jonesy" Jones from his Absolute Cheapskate Way To Start Making Knives pdf.

Any tips will be appreciated....

Mike

Here's a link to a photo of this knife

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...eat=directlink

[Crex]

Mike
If it's just TS's flat barstock over in the building supplies section, it most likely is a low carbon "mild" steel and will not make a servicable blade no matter what heattreating procedure you use.
I stopped by one yesterday to check, although I couldn't find anyone that'd really know (Sunday skeleton crew), they did not appear to have any high carbon barstock. Things may differ at different stores and hopefully you got some material worthy of a good blade. Did it come with a spec sheet and HTng instructions (most blade steel does)?
I looked at your finished blade pic - nice solid design. I Hope the choice of steel does not make it just a "practice" piece.
If you have any left over cut off chunks from the bar, do this simple test: heat this piece up to a dark cherry red (before it gets bright orangish red and quench in water. Clamp a protion of this quenched section in your vise securely and try to bend it. If it bends....not enough carbon. If it snaps like a piece of glass.....you are good to go. Not a tell-all test but a good indicator.

ps - If it turns out to be hardenable, drill your handle pin holes before you do the HT.

[Blkst]

Carl,


It was a practice peice... didn't want to use the O1 I purchased till I got the bevels right. I made a filing guide and needed something to practice on... so off to TSC...lol.

The only thing written on the bar was hot rolled steel...

The guide is based on a design by Bruce Jensky.... works like a charm.

I made a pattern for the blade so it's easy to duplicate in the O1... I feel comfortable with the filing guide now.

I'll do the test like you recommended... but if it dosn't turn out I haven't lost a thing. I'm definetly hooked....

[Crex]

Well......there you are! Now kick the chocks out and let'er roll.
O-1's going to be a little tougher under the file, but should turn out fine. The hole drilling advice still applies, sepecially for O-1.

[Blkst]

Did the test and it bends very nicely ; )


I was thinking of continuing on this blade and putting a handle on it, doing some filework I'd planned to do just to get the feel for it all. I plan on making the same exact design in O1 so I can use the same pattern and templates I'm making now...

Plus I need to study heat treating a little more ; )

Thanks for the help

[Crex]

As long as you are practicing, do the best you can do. Practice doesn't make perfect.....perfect practice does!

Make sure you mark it visibly in some way that will distinguish as a practice piece. If you ever slipped up and sold, gifted or some how liet it get into somone else's hand, it will come back to haunt you.

Sounds to me like you have a good plan to get this game figured out. Wait until you start smithing your blades! Really gets interesting then. Most of all enjoy the journey.

[ckluftinger]

Good morning.
This is my first attempt - actually the third, but I lost the previous two in the virtual quagmire somehow - at replying to a thread. Hm. I'm not nearly as challenged at making knives as I am at joining an internet conversation, so forgive me if I don't know the ettiquette. My name is chris, and I'm "calling" from Canada (Vancouver). I've been making knives and swords for about a year now, and like Mike, I started with stock removal, and mild steel. Made a bunch of nice "wall hangers", until I came across Dan Fogg's website. He's got a great plan for a cheap gas forge, and using his plan - and my own modifications, I built a very effective forge for about $100. I'll never do stock removal again! Forging is not only quicker (I find), but also more fun. I use a tiger torch as a burner and feed it through the bottom of a insulation-lined 10 inch cast iron pipe. It allows me to heat up about six inches of steel at a time. Works for me. I can't heat treat swords yet, but one day I'll build a forge that can hold all 48 inches. Living in the subs kinda prevents me from stoking a coal fire...
Anyway, my biggest challenge so far has been finding the necessary supplies. Not a lot of knife making supply stores in western Canada, at least not that I know of. I found a pottery supply place which has all the refractories and such; this was a great help. My steel comes from a place called Metal Supermarkets (they're on-line). They'll get you just about any kind of metal, in any sort of volume. I use W1 drill rod. A 1/2 by 36 inch piece is about $6. Made an awesome medieval parrying dagger. Polishes up good and keeps a good edge. Even though W1 is water-quenchable, I still used oil for the HT, as it will minimize the danger of warpage. My first attempt failed miserably, and when I tried to straighten the warped blade, it snapped, of course. I keep the broken blade in my shop to remind me of how stupid i was...
So, this is it for my first bit. I'll be sure to check in again, as there is lots of great information here.
Take care,
Chris K.

[Crex]

Welcome aboard Chris.
Not so sure forging is faster, I know some very prolific stock removal guys, and they'd be hard to out produce. That being said, I prefer smithing over grinding anyday (did SR for 20+ years before getting my head screwed on or is that heat treated right ?). I won't say never....just until I can no longer hold tongs and swing a hammer. I will make knives until I cannot possibly do either.
If things are scarce - learn to plunder, salvage and test steels - lots of great blade material rusting away or being sent to China to become rebar. Stop the waste!
Most of all have fun with it, that's where it's really at.

[Blkst]

Perfect practice ... that's what I'm working on. Sound advise about marking the blade ... that could be a bad thing.

How do you mark it by the way ?


Hi Chris... I have been searching for a brick kiln set up to build.