Hand Finishing Hollow ground blades

[T. Hendrickson]

Hello

Knifemaking is a hobby of mine. I've made ~50-60 knives. I stock-remove, and I still haven't been able to afford a belt grinder. So I use my 6" bench grinder and do hollow grinds. This is with a 60 grit wheel. From there I have to hand sand my blades to get an even finish. I've tried many different tricks, but so far the only efficient way I've found to do it is with my fingertips and 100 grit sandpaper. It takes forever and is rough on the figertips.

I guess I'm just wondering if anyone else has had this problem. Any tips or ideas to improve this process? Or should I just buy a good grinder and be done with it. I haven't so far because I'm in college and don't have a lot of time or money for it right now, though I still enjoy it immensely.

Thanks.

[Doug Lester]

One thing that you might try is polishing stones, the type that tool and die makers and some machinists use. Get a selection of grits in a soft stone will quickly conform to the contours of the blade. You use these stones with oil. I order mine from Congress Tools and they can advise you which, if any, of their stones would suit your purpose.

Doug Lester

[chiger]

Jim

The fact that you've made that many knives and done all the sanding by hand says a heck of a lot about your determination. So, here are a couple suggestions for a stubborn guy to try. Hope it's not some of that stuff you've tried.

Suggestion 1...buy a 1/4 sheet palm sander and clamp the blade down and go to work. Do the hollow first and then the flat and you'll get a good crisp line. Start with 60-80 grit and just keep stepping it up 40-60 grit at a time. Then once you've reached the finished grit, 600, 800, 1500...whatever, just go back over it by hand. Or, see suggestion 2 to make that easier.

Oh, and don't use too much pressure on the sander. Let the paper do the work and the pad on sander bottom won't distort over edges and round them off.

Suggestion 2....get a bondo auto body rubber sanding block or two. They come in a couple different shapes. They take like 1/6 sheet strips of sandpaper. And they'll make crisp lines.

I'd recommend using them to do your finish sanding for satin/sanded finishes even if you use a palm sander to do the hard work.

Hope these help. I really appreciate your determination. I got over hand sanding and sore fingers by the end of my first knife 30 years ago. Of course I was dumb enough to put a mirror finish on by hand. Countless hours with 0000 steel wool and flitz. GRRRR!

Just a piece of advice from an old guy. You really should move on to power equipment like a 2x72 belt grinder as soon as possible. 15-20 years down the line, your body will remind you about any abuse you give it now. You'll probably need to use those fingers for something besides scratching your head one of these days! ;~)

chiger,

[NuViking]

I made a sander for ahollow drind a little while ago. I took a peice of wood that was llmost round and rounded it in my lathe. Then I cut the top quarter off leaving the sides look like a 3/4 moon. I smply wrap a strip of sandpaper from a 2 inch beld sanding strap and tack it too the top. Fits nice in my hand and sands a perfect contouron the hollow rind.

[T. Hendrickson]

Thanks Chiger.

I guess I am pretty stubborn when it comes to that. Probably the biggest reason I haven't upgraded my eqipment is because I just don't put out a lot of volume; mostly I just finish one up every so often when I have the time. So I just keep on doing it the hard way. A grinder is at the top of my list of tools though...someday.

I have considered the power sander method before...I presume you're talking about the vibrational type? The reason I've avoided that is because of destroying my grind lines (which, once finally acheived, I'm slightly paranoid about). But if you believe that it can be done...I suppose I'll have to experiment with it more. It would be great if I could do that while still keeping clean lines...it would take hours off each knife and also do away with my least favorite part.

Meanwhile, I'll look into the auto body blocks and see what I can find. Thanks again.

btw my 1st name is Thayer... Jim was just the guy I quoted in my sig

[T. Hendrickson]

Originally Posted by NuViking

I made a sander for ahollow drind a little while ago. I took a peice of wood that was llmost round and rounded it in my lathe. Then I cut the top quarter off leaving the sides look like a 3/4 moon. I smply wrap a strip of sandpaper from a 2 inch beld sanding strap and tack it too the top. Fits nice in my hand and sands a perfect contouron the hollow rind.

Trying to picture this in my head...could you use a large dowel and shave off part of a side to acheive what you describe?

[Kencornett]

Try a hocky puck cut into halves or quarters so it will fit into your grind channel. then wrap the abrasives like you would a normal sanding block. it is what i use when i do the rare hollow grind. you can get hocky pucks from some walmarts, sporting goods stores and online. hope that helps.

God Bless
Kenneth

[Turkey Run]

I too have to use a 6 inch grinder for now,I know what you mean about being scared of screwing up the lines after getting them to the point of sanding,takes forever. I've tried several ways including fingers and so far I have the best luck with a piece of 3 inch PVC pipe cut just long enough for 1/4 piece of sandpaper.I am going to make a sanding block out of 6 inch pipe by cutting the pipe 4 inches long and then ripping the pipe lenthwise into 1/4 sections. It's still alot of work but you get very clean lines without sore fingers! Do the hollow first and then the flats with a piece of oak for a sanding block

[Crex]

Thayer
Got to work out the difference in value of stubborness verses time. Most of us makers are prone to "stubborn" in a lot of ways. However, we all love to make knives and more knives and more knives.........., ergo, the time issue crops up. The time you spend hand sanding from 100 grit to finish (although good for the inner soul) is also time you could be using to work out the other kinks and try new approaches, techniques, embellishments, etc.
Please don't miss understand, I prefer to hand finish my blades as well. I like the look and feel, and don't have much use for "shiney" anything. Getting to the point where you are on you last grits and finishing strokes is always a good feeling. How you get there is more important to you than the knife steel.
My Grand Muddy once told me: "Anyone can ride to the Ball in style, but if they can't dance....."

Just an observation: If you use a bench grinder to set your profile, hollow grind and bevels, what is the real resistance to getting a belt grinder of some form? With 50+ knives under your belt, you ought to be able to convert 4 or 5 of them into some form of a belt grinder.
One quick suggestion - if/when you go to a belt grinder, get variable speed if at all possible.

[george tichbour]

A piece of 1"plywood cut into a 6" disc and drilled to fit your grinder's shaft will mimic the grinding stone. Glue a strip of sandpaper on the edge of the disc and use it to smooth out the grind lines.

George

[NuViking]

Originally Posted by T. Hendrickson

Trying to picture this in my head...could you use a large dowel and shave off part of a side to acheive what you describe?

Yep,, thats what I have in mind. I wish I knew how to downsize our pictures. A picture is worth a thusand words. Basicly if you are looking at the ends,, the dowel would be 3/4 with one quater removed to give a surface to tak onto and a flat surface to grip.

[T. Hendrickson]

Originally Posted by Turkey Run

I too have to use a 6 inch grinder for now,I know what you mean about being scared of screwing up the lines after getting them to the point of sanding,takes forever. I've tried several ways including fingers and so far I have the best luck with a piece of 3 inch PVC pipe cut just long enough for 1/4 piece of sandpaper.I am going to make a sanding block out of 6 inch pipe by cutting the pipe 4 inches long and then ripping the pipe lenthwise into 1/4 sections. It's still alot of work but you get very clean lines without sore fingers! Do the hollow first and then the flats with a piece of oak for a sanding block

Here's an interesting suggestion...PVC hm? I'll have to give that a shot. Thanks for your help.

[T. Hendrickson]

Originally Posted by george tichbour

A piece of 1"plywood cut into a 6" disc and drilled to fit your grinder's shaft will mimic the grinding stone. Glue a strip of sandpaper on the edge of the disc and use it to smooth out the grind lines.

George

I really like this idea...can't believe I've never thought of it before. I'm picturing going directly from the grinder to the wood wheel with 220 grit paper attached...from there it would be much quicker to complete the hand finish down to 2000.

The hardest part is the first grit directly after the grinder. The grinding wheel is a stone, so it leaves very deep scratches that take hours upon hours to remove by hand.

Crex - you are correct in that if I had any economic sense at all, I would put money from knife sales toward a grinder. However, out of all the knives I've made, I've sold around 15-20 of them, and most of those for under $100. This is over a 5-year period. The rest I've either given away or still have. And those proceeds always went to new materials or small tools. So here I am. I agree that it is much more economical to do the brute work of finishing on a grinder. I wish they weren't so expensive.

[T. Hendrickson]

On a side note, I was snooping around for grinders and I found this one...only $395! like 1/4 the price of many of them. Anyone know anything about it, would it be worth it? It seems like it would if it even if it is less than great quality.

[Kencornett]

that is a good starting grinder. many many many fine knives have been made with the ol griz. ray rogers used one i think. and i know MS J Neilson uses two of them. one thing i have heard is the tracking and belt control, as well as the platen. if you want a good grinder for just a bit more check out coote grinders. i have had one for years, and it has never let me down yet....except when i am flat grinding while wearing a hat..i sometimes grind the bills off my hat! they have very good tracking and with the attachments he makes for them now they can be very versitile. BUT the grizz grinder has been modified many times, and there are many websites dedicatedto the mods for them. either way ya go those grinders or any other 2x72 is the way to go, as they are a God sent gift to knife makers.

God Bless
Kenneth