Leaf springs

[newguy]

I'm new here and just want to know if it is worth me time and effort to make a knive out of a cars leaf springs. Also, how good is it's durability and ability to hold an edge?

thanks, new guy

[ranger1]

As recommended by many "Buy good steel".Its not that expesive and it's a real heartbreaker to put alot of work into a knife only to find the steel won't hold an edge or even sharpen.

[AcridSaint]

I think all leaf springs will make some sort of workable knife, but you won't know... is it 5160, 6150, some lower carbon 10 series? Until recently I'd only heard of the first two being used, but some folks have mentioned that it could be something like 1045. If you don't know, it might not be worth it. If the spring is worn, it might have stress fractures that pop up later on, during forging, grinding, heat treating, or, even worse, use.

If it's new stock and you know what it is, then it may be fine. Many, maybe even most, leaf springs are 5160 and if you had access to some new stock of known origin it could be worth it. If you don't, you could could buy a goodly amount of known steel for very little money.

[newguy]

so i guesse the springs are a no no, in that case, will an old file work?

[David Broadwell]

Originally Posted by newguy

so i guesse the springs are a no no, in that case, will an old file work?

Yes, an old file will work IF it was a quality file made from a good tool steel, not one made from low carbon steel and case hardened. Back when I started making knives in 1981 my first 6 knives were made from Nicholson files. You should anneal the files, rough in the knife, re-heat treat them AND temper them, then finish your knives. Files are pretty much full hard and not tempered.

Having said that, I have to second Ranger's recommendation. Buy new steel and don't guess at what this piece of junk or that piece of scrap might be.

David

[newguy]

so since i should by the steel i will use for the knives, should i buy 01 tool steel,440c, oor what?

keep in mind that i am on a tight budget, due to the fact that i am 14! THANKS a bunch for the help so far!!

[AcridSaint]

Don't buy O-1 if you're on a budget! Are you going to send your knives out to heat treat or will you try to do it yourself? 440C and other air-hardening steels will not be easy to DIY on a budget and you'll probably have to send them out or find a maker willing to help you. Carbon steels will require a forge or at least a fire-brick and a torch. If you tell us what area you're in we might be able to find a knifemaker near you willing to let you come to his/her shop and show you some basics. You'll learn more in a day at the shop than you will a month online.

Use safety equipment and tell your parents what you're doing, seriously. Feel free to have them come on here or contact some of us if they want more specifics. You at least want goggles and a respirator. If your folks sign off on it and you want some carbon steel, I'll be willing to send you a chunk of steel for free.

[David Broadwell]

Originally Posted by newguy

so since i should by the steel i will use for the knives, should i buy 01 tool steel,440c, oor what?

keep in mind that i am on a tight budget, due to the fact that i am 14! THANKS a bunch for the help so far!!

Hey New Guy, I understand, I'm on a tight budget myself, and I'm 53! Which steel to buy will depend upon what sort of knives you want to make and their intended use. It's hard to go wrong with 0-1. It's easy to heat treat, easy to work, and it makes a heck of a good using knife. It will also rust while you watch it! There are also other great carbon steels, such as 1084 and 1080. Many like 1095, but many others will tell you that the heat treat can sometimes be a problem. Just about every knife supply house has 0-1, and some will have the others.

If you want or need a stainless blade, then 440c is a good choice and would be good to learn on since you are new to this craft. So is 154cm, and its new version CPM154. I would stay away from the super steels, mainly those with a "v" at the end. THat's vanadium, and they are difficult to work after heat treat and don't finish particularly well. All of these stainless steels are more expensive than carbon steels.

Another good choice, especially after you've made a coupel of knives and have an idea what's going on, would be D2. It's almost stainless, and is very tough.

The reason some of us are suggesting that you use a new steel is that you don't always know what you're getting with "junk yard steel". Yes, they will cost you a fair amount of your allowance money or any earned from an after school job, but you will get good results. Honestly, I would really hate for someone as young as you who might have a future as a knifemaker, whether as a professional or a hobbyist, to get so frustrated with dealing with poor materials that he gives up. There are lots of things you can do to streamline and economize your operation, just don't skimp on the materials.

You have any more questions, you just ask.

David

[newguy]

now what kind of steel would this be, and will it make a decent knive?

i dont mean to look a gift horse in the mouth, but i just like having all my facts straight before i talk to the parents, ya know what i'm sayin?

i am very greatfull for your generousity!!, i plan on useing either the one brick forge, or the coffee can forge to anneal and harden my steel.

ps: i just read your post mr. broadwell, and thank you for all the good info and understanding!

[AcridSaint]

It'll either be 1080 or 1084, I don't have much else that will be too useful to you now. Both will make fine knives. Nothing wrong with O-1 or 440C or the like, just more expensive. I'm not going to try to start you off with junk, just offering to help get you started.

[Delbert Ealy]

As you have already read the consensus is no.
Buy good steel. If you start out with 1095 or 1080 or O-1(which is my first choice) I'll heat treat any blades you make for free. I'd do a few blades and then send them in a batch to save on shipping. I started when I was 14 and will be more than happy to help in any way I can.
Del

[Doug Lester]

One more thing about using old leaf springs, I have read two postings on other boards lately where someone ran into fatigue fractures recycling leaf springs. One problem with using mystery metal is that it's hard to learn heat treating if you don't know what you're starting with. If you get it worked out for that batch of recycled steel, your data may be no good for the next batch of steel. Also, if you find that you really like the results you get with that steel, how are you going to get more of it? You don't know what to ask for. Even if you know the year, make, and model of the vehicle you cannot assume that another vehicle of the same year, make, and model will necessarily have springs made of the same steel. Sometimes suppliers are changed during a model year and sometimes parts from other models can be used. I once had a Toyota pickup that did not have the generator in it the "the book" or the dealer said it was supposed to have.

One thing to remember about the simpler steels is that they are more simple to heat treat too. That's besides being generally cheaper.

One last thing. I went back and reread your original post. How are you going to be making knives? Do you intend to forge or are you going to be doing it by stock removal? That too can effect your choices of steel.

Ok, that wasn't the last thing , this is. Get yourself a good book for reference. The best one for beginners that I have found is Wayne Goddard's "$50 Knife Shop" Most of the knife making suppliers on the Web carry it and, if you give them the name and author, just about any book store will order it for you.

Doug Lester

[B.Finnigan]

After I found this little gem in a 1" chunk of used leaf spring I vowed to never try to forge or grind another knife with used spring. With few exceptions leaf springs do not get replaced until they have completely fatiqued out. They undergo an extreme amount of stress for many years and there is a very high likelyhood of stress/fatique cracking.



However there is an automotive spring shop five minutes from my office. They have plenty of new drop pieces they sell for 20 cents a pound. To date I have never encountered any problems using it and the owner has assured me that all they use is 5160 with no exceptions. They do thier own HTing and forging there and many of the drops still have the label on them "5160".

In contrast just a few weeks ago I bought a brand new chunk of 4142 from McMaster and after I spent over twelve hours machining and finishing a hammer there was a deep crack across the face.

I like using 5160 and like getting it for .20 a Lbs. not to mention I have and endless supply of it very close to where I work. If you have access to a automotive leaf spring shop you should be able to get NEW drop pieces very cheap.

[AcridSaint]

I rounded up a 19"x1.5"x3/16" bar of 1080 I can send you if you like. I still recomend finding out if any of the makers around here are local to you, or if you have a knifemaker's guild or club near you. I've met few, if any, makers who won't take the time to talk to someone new and often even help out with making their first knife.

Check out http://www.engnath.com/ for some great info on knifemaking, including some info on 10xx steels like the 1080 I'll give you. This bar should be enough for 2 or 3 knives, depending on how you cut it and how big the knives are... maybe more. It's also already annealed, so you don't have to soften it to start making your blades.

[newguy]

acridsaint, that is very kind of you to offer, but my dad said he doesnt want some stranger sending me hunks of steel in the mail, he said that if i find a plase to by the steel he will cover the cost of the steel for my first few knives!

i plan on making my knives by stock removeal, the knives will be used as work and camp knives unless i get the wild hair to make a kitchen knive.

thank you everyone for your help, without your help i would never be able to do this!