New Forge under Construction

[robertv6]

I thought id post some pictures of a new horizontal forge im building. Ill post more when its finished. I thought id go high tech with burners on this one. My present one is a vertical forge that is atmospheric. More as it progresses.

blue skies

[Ray Rogers]

Looks good! Obviously, you intend for this forge to last a while, lots of work goinging into this one. The body appears to be about 24" long (guessing!) and if you have two large forced air burners with a strong blower you'll probably be able to melt the ceramic wool I assume you'll use to line it if you're not careful....

[robertv6]

Dang good guess. Over all lenght is 22". It has an 18" body, and the end caps are 2" each. Im gong to put 2 venturi type burners in it, not forced air like my vertical forge. Im not sure whether or not ill like it as well, but im trying it. I plan to line it with 2" of kaowool, coat that with 1/4 in. of satanite, the spray that down with itc-100.
I always over engineer stuff, or build it on the heavy side. I used 14 guage steel for the shell...lol. Of course, that is a little easier for me to weld to, rather that blow a hole in some 22 guage stuff.
Hopefully ill get it just about finished this weekend and i can post some more pics.

Thanks.

Robert

[Ray Rogers]

That's more Satanite than you need but it won't really hurt anything, just a little wasteful. The purpose of the Satanite is to stiffen the wool and seal it so that the wool fibers do not become airborne. You don't want to breathe that stuff. Even a thin coat of Satanite will accomplish that goal. The Satanite has a negligible effect on the thermal characteristics of the forge so more doesn't necessarily equate to better in this case.

Looking forward to seeing the finished project and your impressions of how it works....

[robertv6]

Ray,

I read that on Darren Ellis's website. He suggested putting a coat of satanite on, letting it cure, then another coat, which he said would be approx. 1/4 thick. Ive not put it on that thick before, but i thought to try it. I am going to rework my old vertical forge after i complete this one, so i may only go with one coat, so that i have plenty of satanite when i do that one.

Thanks for the info, and if you have any other pearls of wisdom i might apply to this project, im all ears.

Blue Skies,

Robert

[Ray Rogers]

We're all learning as we go on these things. I built a forge very similar to yours, almost identical in basic characteristics in fact, last year. It had one coat of Satanite and no ITC and still melted the Inswool liner. That just means it was hot, doesn't mean it was efficient so maybe more Satanite will help but I've heard that it hasn't got much insulating ability and very little refecting ability.

At any rate, as you no doubt discovered with your verical forge, the Satanite has to be repaired periodically. This will allow the thickness to build up gradually over time anyway....

[robertv6]

Ray,
I was cliked on your avatar, and jumped to your webpage. I got to looking at your shop, then all the critters. I was thinking what a really cool place, then i was thinking Henry David Thoroau, communing with nature and all, then i saw that D##N Big Spider on your chop saw!!!!! Sorry Bud, you lost me there. I can play with rattle snakes, heck, i might even try and wrestle one of your bears or cougars. But i Hate spiders, ya cant hear em comming. I dont know what kind that dude was, but he makes a taranchala look like flea!
Out side of that, i think youve got a little piece of heaven there. For all of us caught still in the rat race, those pictures remind me that theres hope yet!!!

Blue skies,

[Ray Rogers]

Take a close look at that spider, Robert. It has 10 legs and two eyes. That's what's known as a Halloween Spider and they are indigenous to just about everywhere in this country so you're not safe even in MS.

You mentioned your forge would be lined with wool but you didn't say anything about the bottom. You'll want to put some firebricks in the bottom if you plan to do any welding in there. The flux will eat right through the Satanite and the wool. Did you see the pics of the interior of my forge?

Glad you enjoyed the tour on the website. Keep the faith, there is always hope, but planning, sacrifice, and money are what it really takes to get there....

[robertv6]

I plan to put a 1" layer of kaowool inside, then put my firebricks in the center, fore to aft, then add another 1" layer around the sides and top. I was going to put the bubble alumina?..on top of the brick, but i decided that im mainly going to forge with this one, and use my vertical for any welding. I also got a analog pyrometer from a glass blowing place, and plan to insert the thermocouple into it so that i can SEE what temp the forge is at, and adjust up or down as needed.

blue skies,,

robert

ohhh....btw, ya got me on the spider....but i still hate them critters. We have some black widows here, but mainly we have brown recluses. It aint big, but it packs a real nasty bite.

[Ray Rogers]

Sounds like a good plan on the forge. I also use a thermocouple - be sure to use a well for it or it won't last very long. I made my own wells by using my lathe to drill a hole down the center of some 1/2" stainless rod stopping just short of punching out the other end. Stick the well through all the wool and the shell of the forge with about a 1/2" extending into the fire chamber. Then just slide the thermo couple into the well when you want a reading. If you don't have a lathe, just use some stainless tube with as thick a wall as you can get so it lasts a while. Plug the end for about 1/4" with Satanite. The object of the game is to keep the flame off the thermocouple.

No tarantulas or black widows here that I've seen but we do have Brown Recluse. Was bitten on the leg about 3 years ago while I slept. Apparently, it gave me a significant load of venom as the bite mark never showed any signs of healing, just spread and jellied and showed no signs of slowiing down after two weeks. Finally, I got out my trusty stainless rod and cauterized the whole thing (nearly a spot an inch across by that time) and it began to heal after that. I still have a brown spot there...

[robertv6]

Ray,

i would ask is the "can" you speak of over the thermocouple kinda like the stainless steel flare im using as a nozzle on the end of my burners? I may have mis spoke by using that term. It is steel rod....looks kinda like bare welding rod, and it has ceramic pieces in short sections...end to end....down the lenght of it. Only the very tip of rod shows thru.
I take it i would be making a kinda flare around the end to slow the burn up of the probe?

thanks

robert

[Ray Rogers]

If you allow the thermocouple - in particular, the stel tip at the end of the ceramic insulators - to directly contact the burning gasses in the forge the gasses will erode that steel tip over time. Usually, it doesn't take all that much time either. Thermocouple 'wells' are sold for the purpose of protecting the thermocouple from this type of damage. Such wells are also used for ordinary thermometers in some cases, such as the one I used on my quench tank.

Anyway, all they are is a stainless steel tube that extends through the outer shell of the forge, through the wool and Satanite, and protrudes slightly into the fire chamber. The tube is hollow and you slide the thermocouple in from the outside of the forge when you wish to take a reading. The tube is sealed on the interior side so the forge gasses cannot get to the thermocouple. What you are actually measuring is the temperature of the walls of the well, which happens to be a piece of steel located very close to where your piece of steel is sitting. Since the well is not touching the floor of the forge you are getting pretty close to the temperature of the hot gasses this way. That will also be very close to the temperature of the steel you are forging if the forge has bee running long enough for everything to equalize. I have wells on the side and at the rear of my forge so I can measure the temperature differential with my odd burner setup.

I used fireplace adhesive to install the wells rather than welding them in so that they are easy to replace because they will break down over time too.. My first $40 thermocouple only lasted a few days of exposure to the heat chamber. After I started using the wells I haven't needed to buy any additional thermocouples, although I did have to repair one just once ...

[robertv6]

Ok, this afternoon after work, i was able to get out into the shop. The first pic is of the burners, after i finished playing them and tapping a hole for a choke plate. The second is where i put a small spring under a washer and on top of the choke plate to give tension when tight, but allow me to slide it open and closed. The spring came from the inside of a ballpoint pen, and i cut it in half. In the next pic, i have the kaowool in and some fire brick in the bottom. I temporarily put the burners in, so that i could have them in place when i lined it with satanite. I had 2" of kaowool, but after putting 1" in, i liked the size, so i have plenty left over to make repairs with. FYI the body of the forge is 10". The last pic, i have the koawool all trimmed, set in the back, and then all slathered up with satanite. I sprayed it lightly with water first, then tried using a paint brush to apply. I found it much easier to spread it with my hands...and even coating, then smooth it all out.

Hopefully tomorrow i can finish plumbing the burners, and Flame On!

Blue Skies

[Ray Rogers]

Looks like you're making good progress. Initially, i think you said you were planning to use two layers of wool and here it seems you decided on one. One is plenty for insulation purposes but your shell is so large that your interior may be too large for just one layer. I can't think of any reason not to try it that way but if you have trouble reaching welding temperature you may need to add another layer of wool just to reduce the volume of the fire chamber ...

[Robertv7]

Ok, i got things pretty much finished today. Im using a member name one digit different than my other one, reason being that i had filled up the available number of pictures i could store under the other name. Ray, your the moderator, is this all right?

Anyway, the first two pics are of me testing the burners before i install them. The next one is installed in the forge and checking to see how the cone looks and also to get some moisture out of the kaowool and satanite. I fired it up for about 3 mins and then shut it down. You could see the steam comming out of the forge.

In the next one, ive got the front plate to the forge clamped up and welding a small table for the front of the forge. And in the last pic of this series of pics, i put the front plate on the end of the forge, used my handy paper weight to hold it flat, and welded the front on.