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The Newbies Arena Are you new to knife making? Here is all the help you will need.

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  #16  
Old 10-04-2006, 10:55 PM
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Mike Turner Mike Turner is offline
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Jayson,

Don't throw your screw ups away, learn from your mistakes and keep them for damascus. Of coarse when you get to that point.


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  #17  
Old 10-05-2006, 05:33 PM
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JediOkie JediOkie is offline
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Ok let me run this by you all and see if I have it right. You don't NEED to anneal your steel befroe you start shaping your blade but it is highly recommend as it softens the steel by realigning something or another thereby making it way easier to work with. To do this you need to bring the steel up to a certain temerature and then SLOOOOWLY let it cool down. To do this you need a _______ to heat the steel and then put it in a container of some sort filled with _______ that holds heat and allows the steel to cool of at a slower rate.

Do I have it right? Or am I way of base? I have searched about ten threads with "annealing" as the only search criteria and it brings up about 15 pages of results. I then searched thru a few of those but they mainly just tell you that you need/should anneal this metal or another. Still searching but I figured I would try and cheat a little and ask you all.


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  #18  
Old 10-05-2006, 05:38 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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You basically have the annealing process correct BUT if you buy your blade stock nearly all of it is already perfectly annealed, straight, flat and smooth. Well worth the modest cost when you consider the time, effort, and supplies you'll use trying to anneal a piece of mystery steel ...


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  #19  
Old 10-05-2006, 05:50 PM
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JediOkie JediOkie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Rogers
You basically have the annealing process correct BUT if you buy your blade stock nearly all of it is already perfectly annealed, straight, flat and smooth. Well worth the modest cost when you consider the time, effort, and supplies you'll use trying to anneal a piece of mystery steel ...
Thank you. And I just wanted to say I took the Virtual Tour of your workshop/forge on your web page, and I want one!


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  #20  
Old 10-05-2006, 07:04 PM
AcridSaint AcridSaint is offline
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I'm not sure if the steel from Kelly is annealed or not, I used to buy from Admiral and it never was. I'm pretty sure his 1084 came from the same stock, but I could be wrong. I just annealed most of it when I bought it without ever checking. You might just shoot him an email or phone call about it.

You have two options when it comes to annealing, if you decide to do it.

Option 1 is to triple normalize, heating the steal to non-magnetic, pulling it out of the forge and walking around the shop with it until it reaches room temp, 3 times. I've tried this recently because my setup changed and I'm not too fond of it, but it does make the steel more manageable. The biggest problems I have with it is that it doesn't seem to do as well for me and it takes up a lot more fuel running my forge... about 3 times as much

Option 2 is the process that I prefer and the one that you described, just heat it up to non-magnetic, soak it for a minute or two longer and then stick it in some insulating agent. I have had very good success with perlite in a metal bucket, worked better than wrapping in inswool, insboard, sealing the forge, etc. Perlite can be bought at the garden center of wally world for 3 or 4 bucks a bag. Two bags should be plenty, use 1 - 1.5 to fill your buck and the rest as replacement as it compacts/melts/etc. Either way, do this before you go to bed so you won't be tempted to check on it or anything, by the time you're back from work the next day you steel will be soft and cool.


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  #21  
Old 10-05-2006, 08:21 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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The only steel I've gotten from Kelly that wasn't annealed has been 5160. I have a lot of his 1084 and if it's not fully annealed it's close enough. Some 1095 I have from him is as soft as butter.

When you are ready to do your own annealing do as AcridSaint suggested and fill a big bucket with something. I have a 55 gallon drum split lengthwise and filled with Vermiculite (from the garden store) and wood ash from my wood stoves.

I'm glad you enjoyed the workshop tour. My website has been under constant construction for about 8 years and it's really huge. You have to follow a lot of embedded links as well as the menus to even come close to finding all of it....


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  #22  
Old 10-05-2006, 08:47 PM
Doug Lester Doug Lester is offline
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I use an old ice chest to anneal in. The last time I annealed I actually shut it up in the hot forge that I had just turned off and let it all cool down together. Jayson, maybe I'm wrong, but it seem like you need some book learnin'. Get a book or two on the basics of knife making. Two that come to mind are "The Wonder of Knife Making" and "The $50 Knife Shop", both by Wayne Goddard. Another that is good, if you are going to be forging your blades, is "The Complete Bladesmith" by Jim Hrisoulas. If you're going to be doing stock removal there are some good books out there on that too. Get your reference material together and don't just read it, study it. I don't think that I have a book that I haven't read a half dozen times at least. I keep most of them on my bed for light reading (yes, I'm single). Keep in mind that, for the most part, there is no one correct way of doing things. Keep your mind open to other techniques and try to live in the solution and not the problem.
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  #23  
Old 10-05-2006, 09:01 PM
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JediOkie JediOkie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Lester
I use an old ice chest to anneal in. The last time I annealed I actually shut it up in the hot forge that I had just turned off and let it all cool down together. Jayson, maybe I'm wrong, but it seem like you need some book learnin'. Get a book or two on the basics of knife making. Two that come to mind are "The Wonder of Knife Making" and "The $50 Knife Shop", both by Wayne Goddard. Another that is good, if you are going to be forging your blades, is "The Complete Bladesmith" by Jim Hrisoulas. If you're going to be doing stock removal there are some good books out there on that too. Get your reference material together and don't just read it, study it. I don't think that I have a book that I haven't read a half dozen times at least. I keep most of them on my bed for light reading (yes, I'm single). Keep in mind that, for the most part, there is no one correct way of doing things. Keep your mind open to other techniques and try to live in the solution and not the problem.
I have been debating adding to my library. Right now I have "How to Make Knives" by Loveless and someone else...I forget. I've read and reread it almost everyday since the first part of August when I got it. As of yesterday it is on loan to a freind without as much disposable income that wants to make his dad a knife for Christmas (I even gave him some scales and Loveless bolts to save him some change). I will check into those two you mentioned, all though I have to say my wife is getting a little tighter with my "Knife Money"...espically after we got a shop built for my workshop and "storage".


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  #24  
Old 10-05-2006, 10:48 PM
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Two other books I would like to reccomend on this conaversation is the wonder of knifemaking by Wayne Goddard and the $50 dollar knife shop. The wonder of knifemaking doesnt have much on the general construction of knives but explains the science of metalurgy down to a T in good layman terms. Everything on what things found in the scrapyard make good knives to damascus making. The $50 dollar knife shop shows how to make and use many tools for knifemaking and a little on the construction of a knife


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  #25  
Old 10-05-2006, 11:01 PM
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Jayson,

Just in case you don't know the best place to get these books is amazon.com. Another book that I like is Blade's Guide To Making Knives edited by Joe Kertzman.


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  #26  
Old 10-07-2006, 10:22 PM
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Got an email back from Kelly on the steel. Is 36Rc to hard for stock reduction or about right to learn on. He also said that his 1095 was about a 10Rc so you were right Ray that is butter!


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  #27  
Old 10-07-2006, 11:01 PM
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Mike Turner Mike Turner is offline
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Thats pretty soft in my book since your finished blades will be 54rc on up depends on how you want to use the knife and all, but that is a different saga.


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  #28  
Old 10-08-2006, 01:02 PM
AcridSaint AcridSaint is offline
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36RC is softer than work hardened metals like iron or bronze, so I agree with Mike, shouldn't be a big deal.


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  #29  
Old 10-08-2006, 01:18 PM
LYNN DRURY LYNN DRURY is offline
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I Use 304 On All My Bolsters. It Is Food Grade Stainless. I Abree It Is Tough.
But It Is Tough That It Won't Hardly Scratch.


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  #30  
Old 10-14-2006, 09:08 PM
jdm61 jdm61 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JediOkie
Contacted Kelly and on his recommendation I am getting some 1080 and then I also want to get some 1095 as well. I think over all I am going to end up with 240" worth of material to meet the minimum which the wife and I figured out to be just over $1 per 6" knife on metal, which is pretty darn good in my book. Now if all of those knives turn out okay I'll be really happy and if they don't...it's all good learning right? Plus I might even make one with a file for the practice...have to admit that scares me though.
I would avoid the 1095 at first if you can get the 1080. MUCH easier to work with without screwing it up..lol. Ditto for 5160 and 9260.
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