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Fine Embellishment Everything from hand engraving and scrimshaw to filework and carving. The fine art end of the knifemaker's craft.

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  #1  
Old 08-24-2004, 11:15 AM
ron p. nott ron p. nott is offline
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the lion knife ..new engraving

Here is a panel from a knife I engraved . we are talking about art knives would this be considered a art knife .. your coments are always welcome





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Old 08-24-2004, 11:20 AM
ron p. nott ron p. nott is offline
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Close up of the front of the knife ..





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  #3  
Old 08-24-2004, 11:23 AM
ron p. nott ron p. nott is offline
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Rear of the knife panel..




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Old 08-24-2004, 11:28 AM
ron p. nott ron p. nott is offline
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And this is a close up of the lions .. I was going to do the lions in copper and gold but the customer had a budget . I only received the panels to engrave .. thanks ..






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Old 08-24-2004, 12:30 PM
Ray Cover Jr Ray Cover Jr is offline
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Ron,

The scroll looks nice. I can't really see the scene very well in the photo though. About all I can make out on my computer screen is the outlines of the lions and the trees.

What sis you use to make the scroll darker in color than the reast? Is it some kind of cold blue?

Ray


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Old 08-24-2004, 08:57 PM
ron p. nott ron p. nott is offline
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HI Ray ..Yes the scene is hard to see the metal was hi polished and makes it difficult to photograph . it is of 2 lions on the hunt ...I use Vans cold blue to darken a lot of my engraving ..


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  #7  
Old 09-16-2004, 07:38 PM
Tom McCarthy Tom McCarthy is offline
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Hi Ray,
How about and update with some pictures ...... I can't wate to see the finished product.
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  #8  
Old 09-17-2004, 08:53 AM
ron p. nott ron p. nott is offline
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Hi Tom This knife will never be finished by me .. I did this knife for a customer and showed him the first panel when he saw it he said I dont like it I am sending you a new panel and he wanted me to do some thing else , that is when I lost it and told him that I am not a good enough of a engraver for you ........ so I wonder ? if any body else has customers like this or do I only get them . I enjoy doing work like this but most of it is on my own knives and right now I dont have time to work on my own knives .. customers work comes first , but keep watching Imay get the erge to do another one ..


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Old 09-17-2004, 10:45 AM
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Hmmm. Interesting. I worked for an privately held company some years ago, and one of the brothers that owned it used to say, "This would be a great business if it wasn't for those d***ed customers!"

On one hand, the engraving looks pretty nice to me. If the lions had been done in copper and gold - as you suggested - it would really be a sweet looking panel.

On the other hand, it is the customer's choice, because it is the customer's money. Maybe he's an idiot. Maybe he's too picky. Maybe just cheap. It doesn't really matter. It's a waste of your time to be angry about it.

"Art" is not what you create; It is what someone else enjoys.

If you make a pot of chili, and no one eats it, you accomplish nothing. If someone eats and enjoys it, then it is art.


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Old 09-17-2004, 11:18 AM
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Osprey Guy Osprey Guy is offline
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Over the past couple of years Ron and I have become close friends, so I've heard the details on this story...

Let me preface this story by emphasizing that Ron is one of the very nicest fellows you ever want to meet...and he will go to extraordinary lengths to please any customer.

Ron and I haven't talked about this particular situation for some time, but the way I remember hearing it...

The customer was of course familar with Ron's stlye of engraving and hired him for these panels. Ron engraved the first panel as the customer requested, keeping the customer informed of his progress along the way. When he was finished he sent the finished panel to the customer, who promptly announced he didn't like it,... and wanted to change the subject matter (but didn't in any way feel obligated to pay additional for having changed his mind). Nevertheless, without complaint Ron, being the very obliging fellow that he is, went ahead and made the fairly significant changes (I've suggest to Ron that sometimes he's just too nice a guy for his own good). Ron worked closely with the customer, trying even harder than usual to give the customer exactly what he wanted.

He completed the revised panel and once again sent it off to the customer. Once again the customer changed his mind and said "I don't like that either", and proceeded to request yet another change in direction...I believe it was at that point that Ron (understandably) got a little miffed (when Ron says "I lost it", don't you believe it. Ron always bends way over to accomodate everyone. If he says he "lost it", then it was something he internalized, as he would never get confrontational with a customer. That's just not his way).

The project came to an end with Ron eating the job...

Dennis Greenbaum

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Old 09-17-2004, 12:19 PM
ron p. nott ron p. nott is offline
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Thanks Dennis for telling the whole story I didnt want to get into it .. Texas jack yes you are right but there comes a time when you bend over and try to please a customer and it doesnt work then it is time to call it quits after the third try I told the customer that I couldnt engrave for him and sent his knife back to him .. It is good that these problems dont come up often , in the 30 plus yrs. that I have been engraving I only had 2 such customers .
and the last note is I always try to work with my customers and give then what they want many times I make sample plates for the customer and get there approval with out charging any extra for the work .. thanks for your comments ..


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Old 09-17-2004, 01:40 PM
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Listen, I don't regret dragging out the rest of the story from y'all. Up to my post, it looked like just an artistic disagreement. The rest of the story is that the customer was a knothead. I've seen some of Ron's other posts around the forum and, believe me, I have never seen anything that would lead me to believe that he's anything but a gentleman.

If you think this kind of customer only exists in this line of work, you are mistaken. Everybody who deals with the public runs into this personality disorder sooner or later. My first real entanglement with one was while working for a consulting firm. (In fact, the one who's owner at that time I quoted earlier.) I had a project where everything that could go wrong did go wrong. Worst of all, the customer kept requesting changes. I managed to recover some of the money owed to the company, but nearly lost my job over it. I learned a valuable lesson: Document every change. Do it clearly, and make sure the customer has it along with the new cost. The customer either agrees or the project stops.

With a customer like this, $2 changes can add up to thousands before they finally pull the plug. The fact that you try to be nice and be accomodating doesn't register to people with this disorder. They may ACT like it - until the bill comes. ("Oh that a man can smile and smile and still a villain be")

You have my sympathy on this one. Let's hope some younger folks reading this thread will be able to dodge such a problem in the future.


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Old 09-17-2004, 08:32 PM
ron p. nott ron p. nott is offline
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Thanks texasjack for your comments.. ron


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Old 09-18-2004, 12:58 AM
ddushane ddushane is offline
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Can't wait

Ron, Looks Great! Can't wait to see the finished project! Keep up the great work, Dwayne


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Old 09-18-2004, 04:08 PM
Tom McCarthy Tom McCarthy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ron p. nott
Hi Tom This knife will never be finished by me .. I did this knife for a customer and showed him the first panel when he saw it he said I dont like it I am sending you a new panel and he wanted me to do some thing else , that is when I lost it and told him that I am not a good enough of a engraver for you ........ so I wonder ? if any body else has customers like this or do I only get them . I enjoy doing work like this but most of it is on my own knives and right now I dont have time to work on my own knives .. customers work comes first , but keep watching Imay get the erge to do another one ..
Ron,
I have to admit I?m a little disappointed to find out we will never get a chance to see this project finished. I guess you customer just had no taste!!
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