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  #1  
Old 08-11-2005, 07:29 AM
Wideglide Wideglide is offline
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Ivory?

I'm curious to hear your thoughts on ivory handled knives. They look beautiful, scrim like nothing else, are a natural product BUT it's inevitable that at some point they will crack. Would you consider alternative ivory or do you view it as the poor cousin?
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Old 08-12-2005, 07:34 PM
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thewap thewap is offline
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'Glide,
ivory is one of my favorite materials visually, and asthetically. Unfortunately it is probably the most unstable material ever, and not adequate for a using knife... Maybe an alternative would be stabilized fossil ivory or fossil Walrus ivory. Would be great to hear feedback from users that have used these materials on their knives... To me the simulated stuff looks and feels like... well simulated stuff.


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Old 08-12-2005, 10:31 PM
Seussbrother Seussbrother is offline
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ivory

Marc and Glide, let me first say that I really like ivory! It's beautiful, feels good in the hand and ages with great patina. I have a few ivory handled knives and am starting to develop a different opinion about to use or not to use. I have not had good luck with them as safe queens. I live in a rather humid climate but with the required air conditioning (98 degrees here today) and with the knives staying inside rather than in the humidity, they have all checked, cracked or split. I'm about to develop the opinion that if I were outside using them, they would be less prone to do this. So, I'm starting to think that if one can afford it, and they want to have a feel-good knife with them that is very special, then use the heck out of them. Why and whom are we saving them for? Kind of like putting a bra on the front of a cool car so the paint doesn't get chipped so the next guy has a pristine front on his used car. You make the car look like crap the whole time you have it and then turn it over to the next owner to enjoy. If you are buying knives as an investment, the whole scenario changes. I bought an ivory handled knife to use and once I got it, it was too pretty so I put it away to keep it nice. Now, it's not so pretty so why not enjoy the heck out of it.

Just a different slant on things I reckon,

Seussbrother
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Old 08-12-2005, 11:58 PM
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The "Captain" The "Captain" is offline
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Seuss,
This is really scary, but I totally agree with you! I have a "Stanaback Special", A "Cattleman", and a "Triathelete", all in ivory that I "USE"!! I have several more ivories, but the 3 users are holding up every bit as well. Use em', folks, and forget about it! None of mine have ever seen a safe. I think that this is a mistake a lot of people make. Most safes have a de-humidifier....bad news. Seuss: It might be 98 at your place today, but how hot do ya' think it gets in Africa??
I am of the belief that it is the sudden, extreme temperature changes, as well as a lack of humidity, that splits the ivory quickest! My ivory Randalls stay inside, at whatever temperature I am comfortable in. They stand up well under the room conditions, as well as traveling to and from gun and knife shows. I just treat em' like all of the rest....careful, but not fragile!! The more I handle my ivory "users", the better they respond: similar to leather.
My cigars and my ivory seem to share the same temperature and humidity likes. Something to think about! My ivory cutter and supplier, Gene Beal, uses a huge influx of humidity when he closes the handles up for folks. Same with my too dry cigars. I "over-humidity" them. (That can't be a word). Works well: I once went to a Coconut Grove gun and knife show. At that show I gave one of my good customers a really good cigar (Hoyo de Monterey: Epicure #4). He came to the show the next day to tell me how much he enjoyed the smoke and that the most impressive thing, in his opinion, was the perfect way I had preserved them and kept the perfect amount of humidity. I didn't have the nerve to tell him that I put em' in a "Zip-Lock" and kept them in a tray in the top of my cooler!!!! Oh well: Curiouser and curiouser!! Best, Captain Chris Stanaback


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Old 08-13-2005, 03:02 AM
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Felix Felix is offline
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Very interesting thread to me personally. I've been seriously thinking about ordering a "user" in ivory and Cap provided just the info I was looking for...that being that it'll hold up just fine in the field. And I couldn't agree more with Seussbrother's car-bra analogy. Several of my RMKs are used/sharpened frequently and I've never regretted it. I enjoy "using" a great knife.
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Old 08-13-2005, 08:04 AM
Wideglide Wideglide is offline
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I know what you mean Marc about alternative materials. I was recently at a knife makers shop picking up a few items and noticed the absence of micarta etc. He said that he refuses to put any "un-natural" handle materials on his work. I had heard that mammoth ivory is the only stuff that won't crack?
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Old 08-13-2005, 12:03 PM
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Not sure about the Mammoth ivory. Though I have not seen any complaints about it cracking.
Seuss and Cap. might have a good argument about using ivory like you would any knife. It would be subjected to less extreme temp changes than a safe queen. God knows the safe queen ivory handled knives I have owned all split. But the antique persian knife that was used for over a century, aged with small even cracks all over the handle , which in themselves give the handle an appealing patina. Extreme temp splits are different. ie: a perfect handle with a huge split in it!!


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Old 08-13-2005, 12:14 PM
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Not sure about the Mammoth ivory. Though I have not seen any complaints about it cracking.
Seuss and Cap. might have a good argument about using ivory like you would any knife. It would be subjected to less extreme temp changes than a safe queen. God knows the safe queen ivory handled knives I have owned all split. But the antique persian knife that was used for over a century, aged with small even cracks all over the handle , which in themselves give the handle an appealing patina. Extreme temp splits are different. ie: a perfect handle with a huge split in it!!


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  #9  
Old 09-03-2005, 04:32 PM
panhead panhead is offline
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Split Ivory

I had sent out my Bowles skinner to Ron Skaggs for engraving and about a week after returned, (looking fantastic I might ad it developed a huge split. Oh well such is life I still love the looks of the knife.
Panhead
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  #10  
Old 09-03-2005, 10:53 PM
Seussbrother Seussbrother is offline
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cracked ivory

Panhead, I have great sympathy for you and your treasured knife. If it is Ivory handled with a stainless blade, put it in a sealed freezer bag with a small bit of moistened white cloth (not in direct contact with the ivory). A piece of an old tee-shirt will work well. You don't want to get the knife sopping wet, just rehumidified. Place your knife in a conspicous place in your den, office or bedroom where you will see it every day. Watch it as the crack closes but, be careful and vigilant that there is not so much moisture that mildew forms on the handle. It will stain the ivory big time. Remember that it took awhile for it to dry out and it will take some time for it to take up enough moisture to find itself again. If the blade is carbon steel, only wrap the handle with the baggy and oil the blade heavily and check it often for developing pepper spots. I would also coat the ivory with pure mineral oil after it is back to only a tight crack and as it drys out, recoat with mineral oil. This is no guarantee but is working for me with some success. I am no expert but am learning and listening for new advice. I've heard claims that someone can close the crack permanently and seal it but have no first hand experience or knowledge of the process or longterm results. I did buy a knife about three years ago with a crack from one end of the handle to the other which had been filled with??? and it has required no special care thus far. Good luck and let us know if it helps and remember that baby steps are important here. We can learn together as we go.

Seussbrother
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  #11  
Old 09-05-2005, 07:59 PM
panhead panhead is offline
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Suessbrother
Thanks for the ides I'll try it. Wonder how it would do in my Cigar humidor? It is fairly large aprox 30 box size. Anyway the knife is Stainless. This hasn't stopped me from loving Ivory, In 2006 I'll have 1 8" model 1 done in Ivory as well. Thank You for the helpful thoughts.
Panhead
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Old 09-05-2005, 08:00 PM
panhead panhead is offline
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Suessbrother
Thanks for the ideas I'll try it. Wonder how it would do in my Cigar humidor? It is fairly large aprox 30 box size. Anyway the knife is Stainless. This hasn't stopped me from loving Ivory, In 2006 I'll have a 8" model 1 done in Ivory as well. Thank You for the helpful thoughts.
Panhead
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  #13  
Old 09-06-2005, 05:18 AM
Rick Bowles Rick Bowles is offline
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I've been trying to get a handle on ivory for 25 years (get it?...handle...ivory!) I used to go with what I called a "wet box" for customer's and my own ivory handled knives. Basically a covered shallow display case with small containers of water, this did a good job of keeping the knives humidified. Unfortunately, there was no way to control the level of humidity which I'm sure was near 100%. Though I kept humidifiers running 24/7, when I would take a knife out to begin working on it, the handle was subjected to an extreme change in humidity from 100% to around 60%. As has been suggested, It's my guess that the rapid and extreme change in humidity is traumatic on ivory and may contribute to the unstability of the ivory.
I've changed my thinking and now in my office I use a computerized humidifier that's roughly the size of small imported automobile. It holds 10 gallons of treated water and easily maintains a constant humidity level of ... well, any level I want! I keep my office at 65%.
As most of you know, I get my ivory from David Warther exclusively www.ivorybuyer.com . I used to request that David send me the beautifully colored, "caramel striped" ivory. Though not all or even most of them cracked, it's been my experience that IF they were going to "let go", they would crack along the color stripe. I now request the most plain, white and figureless ivory he can find and it seems to be working out much better. I feel the constant humidity and the plain ivory contributed to my not having a handle crack last winter (the very worst season for a natural handle material).
As for a user, ivory has been a preferred, albeit extravagant handle material since before recorded time. It has a tactile characteristic that while smooth, allows for a non-slip grip. If you want to use an ivory Randall for it's intended purpose I say go for it! If it's gonna crack (and statistically speaking it probably will), it's gonna crack in the safe as easily as in the field. Besides, you'll be the fanciest dude in the woods!
An off center piece of living material such as ivory which has been bored through to accommodate the steel tang of a knife is an odds-on favorite to crack ... count on it. That way, if it doesn't crack (and some don't) you'll be pleasantly surprised!
After all that I gotta say that ivory has been, is now and will continue to be at the apex of premium handle material.
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  #14  
Old 09-06-2005, 04:01 PM
silverknife silverknife is offline
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For the most part I try to buy whole tusks so that I can cut them and size them myself, but I agree with Rick that David Warther is the supplier of choice for cut pieces.

As soon as I cut the tusk, I mean while the band saw is still slowing down, I submerge the cut pieces into a tank of baby oil and when I am finished cutting the tusk(s) I put the tank full of oil and ivory into my Kitchen Aide gas on electric dual fuel stove @ 100 Farenheit for at least 3 days and nights. Never had a piece crack. Oh, I know sooner or later I'm going to get a crack, but so far so good. I also treat all my finished knives with Ren wax and I think that helps also.

The oil treatment also brings out some interesting grain and figure in the ivory that you might not otherwise even know was there.

I think that baby oil is just scented mineral oil but I like the smell, which stays with the ivory for quite a while, and I know that Johnson & Johnson is not adding anything strange to the mix.

One thing also, of all the scrimshawed knives which I own but did not cut the ivory for, only one has cracked through the scrimshaw-A really neat pilated woodpecker which Rick Bowles did some years ago. Oh well.

Regards, DOug
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Old 09-06-2005, 09:04 PM
panhead panhead is offline
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DOug
I'm going to need some Silver from you again for my Model 1. I did get the Ivory from David. I still have awhile to go before my Sasquatches are ready. Can't wait to see them with that fine Silver hardware. Have to send them to R. Skaggs as soon as I get them. Hopefully the Ironwood will hold up well. Doug I'll send you an E-mail to figure out what Silver I'll need for the 1.
Steve
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