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Old 04-07-2004, 12:04 PM
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Chuck Burrows Chuck Burrows is offline
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"Faking" originals - food for thought

Recently Rob (Mongo) asked about adding a patina to brass tacks. (http://www.ckdforums.com/showthread....threadid=21268).

After giving some advice on how to detail the tacks to really look old. I read the following on another forum - http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/roadshow/tips/firearms/ - and I realized that there are a lot of us (and many newbies) making stuff that could easily be foisted off on the unaware so I decide to bring this topic up for discussion.

Now right off the bat - I NEVER make anything to deceive - all of my work is clearly marked that I am the maker and I keep a photo journal of all pieces made.
But remember that although we may not make to deceive there are those unscrupulous folks out there that may acquire our goods and pass them off as "originals".
I have in fact been approached to get in on the "game" by several of these "types". And the money can be BIG! Thousands of dollars for what I get paid a couple of hundred for.

No none of my steps will totally prevent the unscrupulous from trying to pass off work as "original", but every little bit helps and it may keep you from winding up as an accessory or worse:

"Here in the south, it ain't the police who pay the visit. A man was faking scolloped based tables and giving them to a dealer to sell for him. A rare item here, and fooled a number of the big boys. Someone beat the crap of the dealer and hung him by heels off the Deep River bridge. People take it personally as well they should,...."



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Last edited by Chuck Burrows; 04-07-2004 at 12:10 PM.
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Old 04-07-2004, 12:50 PM
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GANNMADE GANNMADE is offline
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I believe that most of us that make primitives or period replicas
promote them as such.As far as other getting our work and trying to sell it as a true artifact i'm not sure there's much that we can do after it leaves our hands.Except a photo record.


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Old 04-07-2004, 12:55 PM
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Shakudo Shakudo is offline
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there have been several of my pieces show up on ebay lately,severely modified. these are now being sold as "200 year old relics" from a private collection.the makers here can only do so much ,and it appears the forgers can do a great deal more. the only thing that will help is education and the buyers seem the be unwilling to use the resources availible to them.
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Old 04-07-2004, 01:24 PM
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Chuck Burrows Chuck Burrows is offline
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I agree there is not much not much we can do other than that listed. Still the idea of this post was to make those makers, especially the new guys (and gals) aware of the potential problems and also to CYA ourselves as much as possible if you aren't already doing it. Remember laws and lawyers follow the dictum that ignorance of the law is no excuse and in our litigious society it's just good to be aware of any possible problems.

Generally they like to go after the big boys, but there have been many recent cases where lawsuits have been brought against lots of small businesses who don't have the bucks to fight in court so too often pony up the bucks to "pay off" the scumbags - a couple hundred bucks or whatever from 20 or thirty small businesses is worth it to some of the shysters out there. Anyway - ff you sell you're a business to these guys and can wind up being behind eight ball. Better to be safe then sorry.

Hey Shakudo can you point me to thos ebay listings? Also have you contacted ebay's fraud division? If you have pictures or other backup it may be worth it to contact them.

Of course some buyer's DON"T want to hear they've been scammed. I have a good friend - a full blood Nez Perce/Cayuse - who makes some of the finest, high dollar, beadwork replicas in existence. A few years ago he was perusing a major Museum's catalog and lo and behold there was one of his pieces, a magnificent mtn lion skin bow and quiver set, that was being touted as an original circa 1870. Well Maynard knew full well his own work so he contacted the museum to inform them of the fact - anyway they blew him off. He subsequently found out that the museum had paid a high 6 figure sum for the item and apparently didn't want folks know that they had been had!


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The beautiful sheaths created for storing the knife elevate the knife one step higher. It celebrates the knife it houses.
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Old 04-07-2004, 01:48 PM
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DiamondG Knives DiamondG Knives is offline
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Chuck
I applaude your thouhgts and efforts.

It is sad that some folks will take any advantage to make a buck!
Can you recomend any ways which makers could help insure that their pieces were not put off as "Originals"?

Shakado, please post the links of the ebay auctions so that folks can be made aware of whats going on. I as well as many others do some bussiness via ebay, not only buying knife materials, but also the occasional good deal that we think we might resell at a later date for a profit.

I fore one can see where Chucks work could be EASILY be mistaken for an original period piece!!!

Thanks and God Bless

Mike


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Old 04-07-2004, 07:29 PM
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On my things that could be mistaken for period I always put the date somewhere unobtrusive. Someone could always file it off, but that sort of thing is out of anyone's control.

I once heard of an antique dealer selling a repro toast rack by Peter Ross of Colonial Williamsburg as being by Paul Revere, because after all, the mark said "P.R."!
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Old 04-07-2004, 07:57 PM
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Chuck Burrows Chuck Burrows is offline
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Alan LMAO! PR = Paul Revere

You know this is nothing new either - I remember reading/hearing off ancient Roman scam artists selling faked Greek and Egyptian pieces.

I can see it - way back when - two cavemen and one going "See this flint ax - the late, great Ugg made this and boy can I make you a deal...." 8o 8o


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Wild Rose Trading Co - Handcrafted Knife Sheaths



The beautiful sheaths created for storing the knife elevate the knife one step higher. It celebrates the knife it houses.
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Old 04-07-2004, 09:42 PM
Dana Acker Dana Acker is offline
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Good topic. For the buyer, unless they are an expert, having people like Jim Batson around who have studied genuine antique knives, and consulting with them is the only way to go. Other than that, mucho homework and research are needed before hard cash is laid down for something that might or might not be what it is purported to be.

That's why I do not even like to do reproductions of period knives. I make pieces in the style of older forms, but try to add my own touches as opposed to making copies.

I know that making faithful reproductions can be a form of paying tribute to the original artist, and I know that there are a lot of people who make pieces and solely make pieces in the styles of famous makers like Bill Moran and William Scagel, and I don't have a problem with that. However, the pieces should be clearly and visibly marked with the current maker's name or touchmark, so that there is absolutely no question that it was made by someone other than the artist whose work was being reproduced.

Touchmarks should not resemble the original artist's in my opinion. That could lead to trouble.


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