Where to get metal?

[hcker2000]

I was wondering if any one could give me some advice on where to find a piece of metal to use for a knife.

I am thinking of doing a small fixed blade knife for daily use.

[Ray Rogers]

From any of the knife supply houses. That's the surest way to get a small piece that you can be positive will make a good blade. It's cheap too.

Sheffield's Knife Supply, Jantz, K&G Finishing, or Texas Knifemakers just to name a few would have steel. Get a catalog while you're at it. The catalogs have supplies, tools, and instructions on how to make a knife. Most of these places have web sites. A web search should find them, or I think some are listed on my links page at http://www.rayrogers.com/links.htm ....

[hcker2000]

Thanks for the info. Any idea what kind of steel a place like lowes or home depot would carry and if its possible to make it into a usable steel?

In the end I would like to use stainless steel but I figure I should practice before hand.

[NJStricker]

The steel barstock from the local hardware store is low carbon and won't hold an edge. It's okay for practice since it's relatively inexpensive, but high carbon steels for knifemaking doesn't cost that much more. A few people on here will recommend using the low carbon steels for practice, but, if your first practice attempt turns out pretty good and you are happy with the results, you'll have to hang it on the wall or toss it in the trash can because it will never be a usable knife.

Before you buy your steel, read all the tutorials you can on this site and linked to other sites.

Figure out what tools you'll need. (Warning--knifemaking is addictive, and makes the addict want to continually buy new power equipment.) At a minimum you will need a sturdy work bench, a vice or C-clamps, a drill, and a hacksaw or Dremel with cut-off wheels, and a couple of files. I use 2 most frequently, a mill flat bastard for fast removal (okay, not fast for you guys with grinders!) and a single-cut file for draw filing.

If you plan to do your own heat treat you will need other equipment (see tutorials for details) or you can send it out as you would for stainless.

Oh yeah, paper and pencil. Draw out your knife plan on paper. Cut it out and transfer the design to thin plywood or plexiglass to see how it fits your hand. If you like it, then transfer the design to your barstock.

Here's a link that will give you the general idea of what you're getting yourself into: http://hossom.com/tutorial/jonesy/

[EdgarFigaro]

"if your first practice attempt turns out pretty good and you are happy with the results, you'll have to hang it on the wall or toss it in the trash can because it will never be a usable knife."

I second this, I was just typing out the same when I saw he said it as well.

I forge my blades and then use files, stones, and the occasional touch to bench grinder and belt sander. Grinder mainly for profiling, the same for belt sander.

Using high carbon steel also means you'll be able to practice your heat treat on knives you find to end up ugly. Still good for learning.

[TexasJack]

Get your hands on a copy of "The $50 Knife Shop" by Wayne Goddard. Not only is it exceptionally well written, the whole premise of the book is that you can make a decent knife with a few basic tools - if you have the desire and some knowledge. You'll never regret the purchase.

[hcker2000]

Well I have an extensive list of tools at my disposal. My grandfather was a machinist. There must be 20 different size files, a belt sander, a grinder (I'm guessing about 6 or 8 inches), band saw, milling machine, lathe, oxy/acetylene torch, etc.

I have been doing basic metal working for a while with his help so it is not completely new to me. It will be the first knife I have made though.

I had read threw that tutorial before and read threw it again.

So lets say I do want to go ahead and just get some stainless steel. What number stainless would I need?

This place http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?id=24&step=2 has 304 and 316.

[NJStricker]

Those stainless steels would be good for guards or bolsters, but not for blades. Also, you would not be able to do your own heat treat easily on stainless if you had intended to do that. If you go with stainless you'll probably want to send it out for heat treat.

Take a look at Texas Knife Supply or Jantz for small quantities of stainless bar stock. You'll want to use 440C or ATS-34 for your knife. For a knife with a 3-4 inch blade, 1/8" or 5/32" is probably a good thickness, especially if you intend to hand file your bevels. Draw out your design on graph paper to find out how wide and long of a bar you will need.

What kind of belt grinder do you have access to? A 4x36 (typical home shop sander for wood) will heat up the blade fast and you will go through belts quickly, as they are typically available in aluminum oxide grits. Larger shop belt grinders in 2x72, 2x60, or even 2x42 or 1x42 will have better belts available in silicon carbide or zirconia.

[hcker2000]

I am going to guess its a 1x42 belt.

What additional steps are required to heat treat stainless?

[NJStricker]

It's not so much that there are extra steps--those are generally the same. It's the high temperature and soak time, and the quench. The carbon steels used for knives--1095, 1084, O-1, 5160, 52100, etc., are generally oil quench knives. You heat them up to critical temp, quench in oil, and then temper.

The critical temps for stainless tend to be higher than for carbon steels, so you need an oven with a controller capable of getting to those temperatures and sustaining them. Then, they are usually air quenched.

If you don't already have the equipment to heat treat stainless, just send it off. I just got back 3 blades from Texas Knife Supply, $10 each for both heat treat and cryo. If you are just making one knife for yourself (yeah, right! ), then save yourself the hassle and send it out. By the time you invest the money in quality steel and shape and grind the knife to where you like it, then you don't want to ruin the process by experimenting with the HT. By sending the blade to a person (like Paul Bos) or compay (TKS, and others) that have the equipment set up to do this, you can be sure that it will be done right.

[hcker2000]

Well I do have access to a forge (propane) but if its going to be that cheap to make sure its done right then I think I may go that way.

[NJStricker]

Information about the variety of steels used for knives can be found at these sites:

http://www.knifeart.com/steelfaqbyjo.html

http://www.agrussell.com/knife_information/steel_guide/

http://www.engnath.com/public/manframe.htm (Click on the Steel button)

If you have a propane forge that will get high carbon steel up to critical temperature (i.e. non-magnetic) then you could try to do it yourself on O-1. If you are going the stainless route, then you should check out TKS's services: http://www.texasknife.com/TKS_Mainframe.htm

Others can provide you contact information for Paul Bos or others that provide heat treat services for knifemakers.

Good luck and keep us posted (with pics!) on your progress.

[hcker2000]

Can do. I still need to find out how long of a fixed blade knife is legal to carry around here. I am wanting to make one that I can use every day but that has a some what fancy look to it.

[NJStricker]

When you find out legal lengths, find out whether they include the choil or not. Some measure from the guard/bolster forward.

A 3-3.5 inch blade will be useful for many tasks, and with a 4 inch handle should be a handy size to carry, be legal in most areas, and not too heavy or long to be uncomfortable.

There are several things you can do/add to make even a small knife "fancy to look at." Burled wood, mosaic pins, filework on the spine or guard, or liners of contrasting colors can all contribute to the look of a knife.

If cost is a consideration, try this. A small, full tang handle is relatively easy to cut out from barstock and shape into a knife. Your local hardware store, the big ones anyway, should have a good selection of various hardwoods. Look through their maple selection, if they have any. Occasionally one will make it into their inventory that will have some slight tiger striping or curl to it. A short 1x4 should be only a few bucks and will provide handle material for several knives. Maple is easy to work with and a variety of stains can be applied to get the look you want. If you want bolsters but don't want to get brass or nickel silver barstock, you can make bolsters of a contrasting/darker wood to dress it up a little bit. You can also check out the section of the store that sells counter tops. Ask if they have any broken pieces of Corian counter. You only need a piece a few inches long to make bolsters. Check the flooring section. Ask if they have any samples of Brazilian cherry or bamboo flooring that they would be willing to give you, or sell for a small price. Maybe they have a carton that was damaged.

An inexpensive liner that some here have used is to use the SOLO plastic plates. Red is a popular choice.

While at the hardware store (or around the shop) look for 1/8 inch or smaller brass rod--check the welding section. You can use these for pins to attach your handle slabs.

Scrounge around thrift shops and flea markets. I have a wooden bowl with heavy burl that I picked up for $1, it was someone's souvenir from Hawaii in a former lifetime. After I cut it down I will have 2 sets of handle slabs and some smaller pieces for composite handles. I picked up a thick brass plate that was a decorative address placard for someone's house--$2 at a yard sale, and it will provide a half dozen guards and bolsters.