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  #1  
Old 01-14-2006, 08:45 PM
bcpayne bcpayne is offline
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Handmade or Custom

Well this is my attempt to get an answer to a question I've been asking folks for a while now. Since I've been making knives (about 3yr) I've used the term handmade because everything I make is from a blank piece of material. But I use a bandsaw to cut the blades out, a knife grinder , a milling machine for the bolsters, etc.. I also find many other knifemakers using the term handmade and custom interchangeable. Likewise I do too. I guess my question is whats the difference and where does the change from handmade to custom take place.
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  #2  
Old 01-14-2006, 08:58 PM
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Andrew Garrett Andrew Garrett is offline
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Hmm... Two diffeent words with different literal meanings. Kit knives are made by hand from parts. The argument could be made that they are handmade to some degree.

Factories make custom products. Not so much in knives to my knowledge, but Harley Davidson, Colt, Magnum Research, etc. They all have custom shops, but may not be hand made.

Perhaps terms like, "Hand made from raw materials..." or "Custom one-off design..." or in my case, "Full custom, chosen from design selection and handmade from raw materials specified by client with the features and finish of their choice"

Kinda wordy, but far more descriptive with no ambiguity.


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  #3  
Old 01-14-2006, 09:07 PM
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Josh O Mason Josh O Mason is offline
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handmade = knife made by your own hands and tools that reflects your personal style.

custom = Knife made by your hands and tools that caters to a customer's personal style, physical attributes and tastes.

thats just the way I see it anyway.
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  #4  
Old 01-15-2006, 12:04 AM
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SKIVIE SKIVIE is offline
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I think either works just fine. I tend to use Handcrafted quite often.

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  #5  
Old 01-15-2006, 08:48 AM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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My definition is closest to the one Josh offered. Handmade (or handcrafted) is a knife that you have made yourself, heat treated, assembeld and finished using whatever tools and power tools you have but with no computerized or automated assisstance.

A custom knife is the same knife, made the same way, but with some design, alteration, embellishment, material, or finish that was specified by the customer for whom it was made.

To go further, that same knife made with any major part - a blade for instance, but not an accessory like a pivot or a thumb stud - that was blanked by a machine is not handmade. If the blanked parts are completed by hand, fitted, assembled and finished by hand then the knife is mid-tech.

If the machine made parts are so complete as to allow the parts to be assembled into a knife with only a small tweak here and there then you have a manufactured knife that you have assembled by hand. These are called 'kits' when you do them one at a time for fun or profit. They are also known as 'factory' knives when you do them in large batches ....


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  #6  
Old 01-23-2006, 11:22 AM
J.R. Fraps J.R. Fraps is offline
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I think Josh did a good job of defining the difference.

As to Handmade, the definition I follow is the one quoted in the bylaws of the Knifemakers' Guild, because I feel that is fair and reasonable and because for your knives to sellable (I think I made that word up) at the Annual Knifemakers' Guild Show, they must meet that definition of Handmade.
All of my knives are handmade, according to that definition,
Custom to me is one that is made specifically to a customer's specifications....even if it is extremely similar to another knife I have made.


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  #7  
Old 01-24-2006, 09:59 PM
Jason Cutter Jason Cutter is offline
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I support the explanations given by Josh and Ray. The "Custom" , "Handmade" issue can be a very debatable point. The key is to be honest to the customer in your descriptions of what work you are putting into your knife. It overlaps a bit with the topic of "What is Sole Authorship...?"

Myself, I like the terms "Hand-crafted" and "Custom-Ordered". Eg.- you could also have a "Hand-crafted, Custom-ordered knife". I also tend to detail what bits I made, what bits I purchased and what processes I performed myself. Eg.- who did the heat treatment.

Jason.


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  #8  
Old 01-25-2006, 08:21 AM
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Les Robertson Les Robertson is offline
 
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Guys,

It is funny how this question comes up every 6 months or so...for about the last 20 years.

First, don't get into "literal" meanings. If you going to do that then no knife maker builds a handmade knife. Even flint knappers use tools of some type.

Second, you don't get to discrimanate between power tools that you can dial in your desired settings and a computer assisted machine that dials in the setting.

Next, the term "Custom" knife was a term coined back in the 70's for marketing purposes. Whenever you have a "niche" business you generally see its own lexicon develop. This does two things, allows collectors to talk with each other about their niche and allows those who created the items in the niche to advertise their items.

The terms "custom" and "customize" get confused a lot. All the gun magazines advertise "Custom" 45.s. In fact these are "customized", same with Harley, Buck and any other large factory. Offering you options to a standard model that is mass produced is "customizing" although you are told it is "custom" made to your requirements. Again, alot of this is semantics as the marketing departments know that certain words are viewed in a more favorable light (meaning that the company can charge more).

Another example of this is "tactical" this is meerly a marketing term to define a sector of the market.

With both custom and tactical the majority of the confusion resides with those who make neither but are trying to force the issue to get their knife or knives into a particular category. Why? So they can either sell more or get more money.

Randall, Chris Reeve (except for the old ones) and William Henry are not "Custom" knives.

Knives with Natural Handle material, bright shiny blades, engraving, scrimshaw or Damascua are not "Tactical" knives.

It is not an arguement about who is better or worse, etc. It is simply a misunderstanding of marketing terms.

Another example and category of knives: Hunting Knives.

I have judged at shows where makers have submitted knives in that category with 10" blades, big double lugged guards, etc. Now most of us do not view these as hunters. But for some reason the maker thought it was.

Ok, more categories, Art Knives, Fantasy Knives, Utility Knives (how do these differ from tactical and hunting knives?) Presentation knives.

Can a knife be in several categories at once? I think so.

If you are confused as to what is what, ask a custom knife collector.

Oh and a "kit" knife is neither handmade or custom it is just what the name says it is...a kit knife. The only people who won't call it that are those trying to make it into something it is not. Someone brought up honesty. Excellent point. Just use accurate terms to describe how the knife was made. Let the customer decide if using a ban saw is superior or inferor or not different than a laser cut blank.


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  #9  
Old 01-25-2006, 05:54 PM
Brett Bennett Brett Bennett is offline
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I would agree that honesty is the key that prevents misunderstandings. With that said, I tend to consider myself a 'custom' maker, even when a knife is made to my specifications. Let me explain.
Assume I make a knife to a customer's specifications. Most would agree that it is a 'custom' knife. The original owner then sells the knife. IMO, most would agree that this is still a custom knife even if the new owner wasn't involved in the original design.
Now, I make a knife to my specifications. I am the 'owner' until it is sold, or the original customer. When I sell the knife, it retains it's 'custom' heritage.
Don't get me wrong. I don't expect recoin the term 'custom'. I just wanted to throw out some thoughts for discussion. Thoughts?

Brett
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  #10  
Old 01-25-2006, 06:37 PM
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Les Robertson Les Robertson is offline
 
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Hi Brett,

Your thoughts echo the sentiments of every knife maker out there. You work and sweat to produce something unique. If it the first time you have ever made it or you make something to someone's specifications you view it as custom. In a literal sense of the word you are correct.

However, if you make a second knife like that your knife is no longer custom. That knife now becomes a "prototype".

Also, if you make a knife similar to one that has been previously been made, haven't you just "customized" the design that already exists.

If you make folders and incorporate any kind of lock haven't you built something that has already been done? How about guards, bolsters, thumb studs, etc.

I think this is why, at least I, view the term "Custom Knife" as a marketing term.

While it is true there are some one of a kind custom knives out there. Fact is, if that is all that were made the custom knife market as we know it would not exist.


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  #11  
Old 01-27-2006, 01:28 PM
Brett Bennett Brett Bennett is offline
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Good thoughts, Les. Thanks. I certainly agree with you that 'custom', as we use it, is a marketing term. I have no problem with that.
I agree with the use of the terms 'prototype', 'customization', etc., however, I think it still allows for the marketing label of 'custom' in most cases.
For example, a new design is made with the intent to make more like it. The first qualifies as a prototype, whereas subsequent ones do not. IMO, the remainder are still customs, just not on-of-a-kind customs.
I have 'customized' my standard patterns in order to give customers what they like. Usually, it is a matter of, "I like this knife, but I want it with ______." The knife design is based on input from both of us and, IMO, still qualifies as a custom knife.
Generally, I think most agree on the use of terms custom, handmade, etc. It's the specifics that separate us. In the end, I think the customer gets to decide.
Although I have my personal opinions, I usually prefer to just explain how I made a particular knife. It leaves little room for error or argument.

Brett
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