Japanese cord wrapped handles

[nozh_scrap]

Hey guys,

I was wanting to ask a question about tsukamaki. I know how to do the cord wrapping process and all, I've wrapped a few swords for students in my Aikido and Iado class, and I've practiced countless times on old paint sticks and rulers and such. I've got that part down, but some custom knives that I've seen and held with the cord wrapped handle, the material has been hard, and glossy. What is being used to make the cord material stiff like that? Is the handle dipped in something after wrapping? Or is the cord soaked in it beforehand then wrapped?

Any help would be appreciated. I have a customer wanting a little japanese style neck knife, and I'd like to make the strongest handle possible.

Here's a picture of a knife she sent me for some ideas. if mine turns out as good looking as this one, I may have to keep it

[Chris Daigle]

Nozh,

Epoxy is applied to the wrap to make it more durable (and thus glossy). Some like to apply it with an old toothbrush or something similar.

Chris

[fitzo]

Some will add a little acetone and stir it in to thin the epoxy a bit. Others will buy a thinner epoxy like the Hughes stuff Rio Grande sells.

[AUBE]

sealant type epoxies with a low viscosity work good. you can also use cyanoacrylate(superglue) some people have had problems with cyanoacrylates turning white but ive never had it happen...when usaing cyanoacrylates i use zap-a-gap.

keep in mind many sealants like epoxy dont have UV stabilizers in them and can yellow with age. you wont really notice it on darker materials but it can make lighter materials look pretty ugly in a few months of exposure..the thinner the coating the less you will notice the yellowing.

i hadnt even thought of mixing acetone to thin epoxy...i used long cure time epoxy and heat to thin it....i will have to try the acetone idea sometime, thanks fitz

[fitzo]

I forgot about the heat! LOL. Thank you!

There's an actual solvent made for thinning and cleaning epoxy but it's toxic and obnoxious. I forget the name. Acetone seems to work ok.

One should wear nitrile gloves, regardless, when using acetone or epoxy. It's (acetone) not so much that it's toxic itself; it's not as bad as a lot of stuff. What it does, however, is de-fat the skin and remove the natural barriers, allowing other stuff to be carried right through and absorbed.

[nozh_scrap]

so.... you wrap the handle first, then put the epoxy on with a toothbrush? Or do you use the epoxy as you wrap?


btw...I wrapped the handle of a wakizashi one time for a friend and fellow Aikido student, and it turned out beautifully. It was one of the best I've ever done. Alot of the Iado students were having problems with their cord wraps staying put. They unraveled and slipped out of shape due to hours of swordplay and cutting practice everyday in class. I thought about that while wrapping this short wakizashi handle, and when I was done with it, I squirted some superglue on the wraps to prevent the unraveling. It looked good wet, and I thought I figured out how to get the hard glossy end product I wished for. I laid it down to dry, and a few hours later I came back to see that the beautiful black cord wrapped handle had this flaky white crap all over it. It was terrible, and I was heartbroken. had to tear it down and do it all over again. I guess if it aint broke, don't fix it

[AUBE]

i wrap the handle then apply the sealant as the last step. thats why its good to have something thin that will soak down into the material. some materials like cotton absorb the sealant good...others like paracord arent the best at absorbing it.

sometimes i do a wrap that has two layers of cord(instead of a underlayer of stingray etc, i will have cord)...in that case i seal the underlayer then when its cured i do the overlayer and seal that.

[AUBE]

out of curiousity did you use superglue brand? ive heard of several people having this problem but after doing dozens of handles with zap-a-gap ive never had it....maybe ive just been lucky.

i seal all my wrapped handles unless they request it not be sealed. its a pain to have to keep wrapping handles because they come loose.

[nozh_scrap]

Originally Posted by AUBE

out of curiousity did you use superglue brand? ive heard of several people having this problem but after doing dozens of handles with zap-a-gap ive never had it....maybe ive just been lucky.

i seal all my wrapped handles unless they request it not be sealed. its a pain to have to keep wrapping handles because they come loose.

I know all about the wrapping coming loose. I try to pull the cord as tight as I can, and make the folds real tight, but sometimes thats just not enough.

I used Krazy Glue. You know, the brand with the guy hanging by his helmet? I put it all over the cord material, and an hour or so later it looked like a day old glazed donut.

Anyway...thanks guys for your responses. Is there any particular epoxy (based on cure time) I should get?

[Andrew Garrett]

Remember that traditional Japanese swords used leather wrapping. They wrap and then wet it to make it shrink tight all the knotting. Nylon cord wrap stuff will never be very secure unless sealed--just too slick by nature. That would seem to get worse with a nylon under wrap.

[nozh_scrap]

Some of the traditional swords used silk wrapping materials too. Traditional Tsukamaki for that material requires you to have all kinds of rice glue, and little triangles of folded paper to stick in between the folds, and all that mess. The glue, paper, and the abraisiveness of the shark/ray skin would probably keep it from slipping less.

I could see how the technique with the wet leather would work. Pretty cool. Makes it easier.

The last sword handle I wrapped, I used some double stick tape on the edges of the handle and wrapped over it, and it seemed to keep it from unraveling much better.

any particular brand of regular epoxy you guys would reccomend?

[fitzo]

nozh..

I'm sorry I can't help you on a brand of "store bought" epoxy. All I've used for many years has come from supply houses like Koval or Rio Grande. I use Conap Industrial epoxy (very thick; from Koval), Hughes Epoxy 330 from Rio Grande (thin), and a house brand from K&G that is pourable but thick. There's some stuff I bought from Rio Grande called "Opticon" that is meant for sealing fractures in jewels, but I haven't tried it yet. It dries clear and is VERY thin.

The "typical" stuff you can find at hardware stores like Devcon is used by many in handle attachment on knives. It's reasonably thick but you could thin it a bit with acetone. Another option is to investigate "fiberglass resin" from the automotive section of a department store or a auto parts store; it's an epoxy.

One other thought I have is that there's a thin epoxy called West Systems that you can sometimes buy little packets of at woodworking places or marine supplies. It's not much good, apparently, for affixing handles, but it's considered the best in marine repair.

Hope that helps a bit.

[nozh_scrap]

I think I'll experiment a bit with the store bought devcon 2 ton stuff with some acetone. If I don't like it, I'll see about the Hughes 330 stuff at Rio Grande.

Thanks alot guys. This helps out a bunch.