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The Newbies Arena Are you new to knife making? Here is all the help you will need.

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  #1  
Old 03-01-2014, 07:13 AM
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toolmkr20 toolmkr20 is offline
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Mini forge ?

I have come across a piece of steel pipe that is 8" ID and 8" long. It is thick wall pipe. I still need to true up the ends on the lathe where it was rough cut so i'll lose some on the length. After I do this will I still have enough on the length to make a decent mini forge or should I try to find a longer piece?
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  #2  
Old 03-01-2014, 08:01 AM
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C Craft C Craft is offline
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The piece of pipe you have would work but, it is quite small if you insulate and top coat you are not leaving a very big chamber. You need a minimum of 1" and you would be better with 2" and a top coat, leaving a chamber of about 6" which is usable but the length is not going to allow for very long blades to be forged from it!

If you are looking for a quick mini forge an old freon tank or an empty helium tank, the type that you buy with helium in them from places like Walmart!

http://www.partycity.com/product<br ...32-323903745-2

Or a metal five gallon bucket.

This isn't a very good pic of one but that is what this one was made of.




That gives you room for a layer or two of inswool top-coated to keep it from becoming airborne.

What ever you use you need to insulate with at least 1" of inswool and topcoat to keep it from becoming airborne and you breathing it!

If you are going to invest any serious time or money into building a forge go around to your local welding shops and tell them that you are looking for a pipe drop. (the left over from something they welded up )

For around $40.00 bucks or less will put you on a start. Start with something like a 10" pipe and 2" of inswool and a topcoat leaves you a chamber of 8" finish! You will need to do some welding and some plumbing for the gas lines and you can build your own burners!

Then get to cutting and welding and you end up with something like this!


A decent mini forge will take time and effort and you still have to build a burner or make your own!
I guess what I am saying that I am not a big fan of mini forges because for just a little more time and effort you can build a full size forge and if done correctly it will last for a long time. The cost if you are handy and have access to scrap steel is not cost prohibitive!


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Last edited by C Craft; 03-01-2014 at 08:49 AM.
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  #3  
Old 03-01-2014, 09:05 AM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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Maybe I'm just being a word Nazi but I wouldn't call a forge built in a thick walled 8" pipe 'mini'. If you really want to build a mini forge all you need is a coffee can and 1" of wool lining. If your purpose if to heat treat your blades or simply forge a blade then you really don't need a large interior and the smaller interior is more efficient for both heat and fuel. The smaller body also allows for a smaller or simpler burner.

After looking at my mini forge (http://www.rayrogers.com/miniforge.htm) one fellow sent me an email saying he built one using two 1-gallon paint cans to get a little more length. So, if your goal is to build a simple forge cheaply and quickly then build a mini forge that is actually mini. Otherwise, what you may be after is more like C Craft's full sized forge's ....


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  #4  
Old 03-01-2014, 11:20 AM
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toolmkr20 toolmkr20 is offline
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I'm a tool maker and have plenty of access to the parts and equipment I need to build it so the cost isn't really a big deal. I also own a small heat treat oven for heat treating my blades. I just wanted to build a small but heavy duty forge to last a while just to get started till I get the hang of the basics of bladesmithing. I'm not planning on doing any large blades till I get a lot of hours in hammering some steel. Thanks for the input and help fellas. I'm just a newbie at knife making and am willing to soak up any knowledge y'all are willing give.

Thanks, Seth
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Old 03-01-2014, 12:14 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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Seth,

That sounds fine but you are still making the same assumptions that all first time forge builders, including myself, tend to make. Namely, that a forge must be build like a Abrams tank if it is to last for very long. Not so.

There's no harm in building a very stout, heavy forge such as your thick walled pipe would do except that you really need to build a decent burner to go with it. Big heavy forges with thick walls heat up very slowly so you need a burner that can provide a lot of BTUs in a short time frame to be practical. That also translates to more fuel useage.

The next thing is that it doesn't matter if the forge body is a bank vault its the interior lining that will need to be replaced periodically. How often depends on how much you use it, of course, but it also depends on how aggressive your burner is. That big burner that is needed to heat all that mass will also tear up the lining faster.

So, when you are ready, build the big heavy forge if you want to. But, if your intent is really to get 'the hang of the basics' you might consider building something simpler and cheaper that will be easy to change as you gain the experience that will ultimately lead you to the right forge design for you. That way, if you decide the first forge is too large or too small, or it needs two burners, or forced air burners instead of venturi, or maybe a vertical forge is better for you.....whatever you decide, you can try the options out without expending much effort and at a minimal cost ....


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Old 03-01-2014, 03:30 PM
Doug Lester Doug Lester is offline
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With an 8" inside diameter two layers of ceramic insulating fiber with a thin coat of refractory should still leave the forge with at least a 3 1/2" interior. Even shortened down to 7" in length and with a good burner you should be able to heat treat up to a 10-12" blade if you watch what you're doing. However, I would not call it a mini forge though it will be small. With a well balanced burner you might even be able to forge weld with a unit that size.

Doug


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Old 03-01-2014, 06:59 PM
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Thanks guys. Ray the burner set-up on your mini forge, would that set-up most likely work on the one i'm building if I keep the forge chamber small or do you suggest going a bit larger? Also how do you light your forge? Do you wait for the gas to start expelling from the chamber or do you light it internally?

Thanks, Seth
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Old 03-01-2014, 07:22 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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The burner on mine might work (a little larger couldn't hurt) but you would probably want to use a regular sized propane tank to allow you to run it longer. The heavier forge body will take longer to heat up and then you still need time to do your work. Those tiny one pound tanks will cool down and lose pressure pretty quickly.

The safest way I know to light any forge is to take a sheet of typing paper, twist it into a cigar shape, squirt some WD-40 on it, light it, and place it inside the forge as close to the burner nozzle as possible. Turn on the air first if you have a forced air burner, then the gas. The WD-40 burns quite a while so you should have plenty of time to get the mixture right so that the burner will light. Once lit, the burner will burn up the cigar so nothing to worry about with that. The forge won't really start to run real well until the interior gets hot enough to glow. The glowing walls act like a glow plug and help burn the gas so you'll need to tweak the mixture at that time ...


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Old 03-01-2014, 08:06 PM
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Thanks.
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  #10  
Old 03-01-2014, 08:14 PM
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The more I talk to you fellas about it the more excited I get to finish it lol. I can't wait to start hammering on some hot steel. I'll try and post pics as I work on it.

Thanks, Seth
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Old 03-01-2014, 09:57 PM
Doug Lester Doug Lester is offline
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I have a ball cock valve on my gas line for easy lighting and a quick turn off. I turn the blower on, open the valve on the tank and light my propane torch. I stand to one side with the flame of the torch entering the forge and crack the ball valve to light it. If it doesn't light right away I turn the ball valve off and let the blower empty the forge of gas and then I trouble shoot things. Never have the valve on the propane tank open without the blower being on. If I have problem lighting the forge it's probably because I was running it a little lean the last time I used the forge and all I have to do is open the needle valve a little more and try lighting it again.


Doug


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Old 03-08-2014, 11:56 PM
donnymac250 donnymac250 is offline
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my mini forge , plans from rays website


Last edited by donnymac250; 03-09-2014 at 04:19 PM.
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Old 03-09-2014, 03:20 PM
Doug Lester Doug Lester is offline
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Without a regulator on that line you will be running the tank full open and you'll really go through the propane. You also need to get the ceramic matting coated with something that will keep it from becoming airborne when the burner is running. If not, the matting will change with the heating and will stick in your lungs and cause cumulative damage.

I prefer a castable refractory, a 1/4-1/2" coating will do, or a good coating of a high temperature mortar.

Other than that I'd say you did a fine job.

Doug


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Old 03-09-2014, 04:14 PM
donnymac250 donnymac250 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Lester View Post
Without a regulator on that line you will be running the tank full open and you'll really go through the propane. You also need to get the ceramic matting coated with something that will keep it from becoming airborne when the burner is running. If not, the matting will change with the heating and will stick in your lungs and cause cumulative damage.

I prefer a castable refractory, a 1/4-1/2" coating will do, or a good coating of a high temperature mortar.

Other than that I'd say you did a fine job.

Doug
thanks . yes im going to get some itc 100 , hard to find any of that kind of cement around here .will have to get shipped from some where . just set it up and tried it out to see how it works .my son is working on the pipe lines . he has an adjustable regulator for me . so i have one very soon . as of now i am also making a larger forge .10" od pipe x 14" in length . and about 3/8" wall thickness . i also made a david hammer burner for it .
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Old 03-10-2014, 06:19 AM
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ITC100 is a very fine wash coating and not really designed for sealing and rigidizing the wool. Get some satanite or similar for the coating and use the ITC to coat the satanite. ITC is way more expensive than the masonary (and will not bind up the wool very well).
You should be able to get satanite anywhere you can get ITC.
Make sure the regulator, as any other component of your fuel line, is rated for Lp. Air line stuff has gaskets and o-rings that will deteriate when exposed to Lp causing leaks ..... not a good thing around Lp and flames/sparks.
Use the regulator to regulate the line pressure, use the needle valve to regulate the fuel feed to the torch. You'll have much better control of the forge/heat.


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