Grandfather's Knife

[virginian1607]

I'm new to knife making and was hoping that someone would be able to offer some advice on a project. My grandfather made a number of fixed blade hunting knives before he passed away a number of years ago. He was working on a knife for my dad which he was never able to complete and I recently found the knife and was hoping to be able to finish it for him. It looks to me like it needs some work but I think I have all the pieces. My question is what would be the next step? Any ideas on how the brass was to be attached to the end of the handle? I've attached some pictures and would love any help I could get.

http://i48.tinypic.com/11me1he.jpg

http://i46.tinypic.com/wj9c2p.jpg

http://i49.tinypic.com/1zud0o.jpg

http://i49.tinypic.com/1xz05s.jpg

[Ray Rogers]

Simple, that's a standard through tang design, in fact it looks like a kit knife blade and guard. The brass butt cap would be threaded internally (looks like the hole is already there) with a bottoming tap of whatever size matches that tang thread. When ready for final assembly, most of us would fill the handle with glue and screw the butt cap down tightly but you can leave out the glue if you feel like you might need to take the knife apart.

Does that steel collar go all the way through the handle - is the hole in the butt cap sized to match that collar? If so, you might want to drill the hole all the way through the butt cap, slip it over the collar, and then add a new chunk of brass to thread onto the tang.

The parts are kind of blocky right now so some final shaping should be done to give it some 'flow'. Other than that, it looks like it's well on its way. Work safely, wear eye protection and a respirator when grinding. And for Pete's sake don't try to mirror polish that blade! Every first timer tries that - it's dangerous to do and it results in a blade that can't be used without being scratched and looking bad so you'll end up re-polishing it every time anyone touches it.

Those pictures are really huge making it difficult to see everything at one time. It would help in the future if you'd edit them down to fit the screen a bit better ...

[virginian1607]

Thank you for the advice. I can't figure out how to make those pictures any smaller, when I just include a link to them it still displays them in the post. Also not sure where the original post went...it disappeared when I tried to edit those pictures.

The steel collar does not extend through the handle, it just screws on to hold the handle in place. The external diameter of the steel collar fits with the brass drilled for the butt cap, so it looks like you're right about having to tap a new piece of brass for the butt cap. What tools would you recommend for shaping the brass?

[Crex]

Must be pretty big, my laptop won't even show the beginning thread.....text or pics.

[Ray Rogers]

You'd have to use something like Photoshop to resize the pictures before sending them out to Photobucket or where ever you have them stored.

The knife maker's most used tool is his 2x72" belt grinder. With that, you can shape anything. But, I'm guessing you don't have one so files and sand paper will work just as well if a bit slower ....

[virginian1607]

Thanks again for all the advice. I don't have a belt sander, but I have files and sandpaper, so it looks like I'll be tackling the project the old fashioned way. If you were going to do the butt cap in two pieces as suggested (with one piece fitting over the steel collar and one piece screwing onto the tang), how would you attach the first piece to the steel collar...would you use glue? If so, do you have a favorite brand? As for shaping the brass butt cap, would you screw them in place and do your shaping once they are in position on the grip or is there a way to shape prior to placement and still maintain the correct orientiation?

[Ray Rogers]

No, glue alone won't do it permanently. The steel collar isn't really needed and since you're going to make a new brass nut you could make a new rear guard too if you even want a guard on the rear. No reason to have it usually. What I'm saying is, make one piece that threads onto the tang and also butts up against the wood. That way, when that piece is screwed down it tightens up the whole handle. If you do want that rear guard then make another one that fits the tang without needing the steel collar so that when the brass nut is tightened down the rear guard also gets tightened. You would probably want to put a pin between the two pieces of brass so that the guard can't rotate - glue alone won't hold it permanently.

Most of us eventually settle on AcraGlas as our glue of choice. Available from Jantz.

I glue the whole mess up and then shape it when it dries but that could be difficult using files. With files, I think shaping each piece off the knife would be easier but you'll need to assemble and disassemble many times. Leave it a little rough for the final assembly because once the glue is in seems like everything goes together a little further than without the glue (lubrication?) and you'll need to do some final shaping ...

[Crex]

Like Rays approach best, with good advise in the glue. Funny how it changes things slightly on the final glue-up.
An alternative, if I'm understanding your description correctly, would be to silver solder the steel sleeve to the inside of the brass butt cap. That would take some trial fitting and measuring to get the male threaded section cut to the right length to allow a solid contact with the wood on glue up and still have the butt cap lined up the way you want. Takes a lot of "try-fitting" to get it right and Ray's approach makes alignment easier.

[virginian1607]

Originally Posted by Crex

Like Rays approach best, with good advise in the glue. Funny how it changes things slightly on the final glue-up.
An alternative, if I'm understanding your description correctly, would be to silver solder the steel sleeve to the inside of the brass butt cap. That would take some trial fitting and measuring to get the male threaded section cut to the right length to allow a solid contact with the wood on glue up and still have the butt cap lined up the way you want. Takes a lot of "try-fitting" to get it right and Ray's approach makes alignment easier.

I did some reading yesterday and I agree that drilling/tapping a new buttcap without the use of the steel collar probably makes the most sense; however, I don't have access to a drill press and the more I look at the pieces to this knife, the more it seems like my grandfathers plan was to solder the steel collar (which looks to me like a nut which was grinded down) into the hole he had drilled in the brass, which is essentially what you're describing. I'm willing to accept a little extra time spent in fitting and shaping the butt cap...do you have any experience making a buttcap like this? Once again, I really do appreciate all of the help everyone has offered.

[Ray Rogers]

No offense to your grandfather but I doubt anyone has experience making a butt cap quite that way. That said though, there are no hard and fast rules to most of what we do. Whatever works, however you are able to achieve the desired end result, is perfectly acceptable ....

[Crex]

Actually Ray, it's not all that different from the way I put my large western bowies together. My acorns are blind hole tapped and have sleeves that go through the butt-cap slightly into the handle (helps maintain alignment). I just turn them from one piece of WI. Sort of a variation of what you suggested and what he apparently was going for.
Only real difference is that his grandfather was fabricating from several different pieces what I make with two. It's very solid if done right.
Only problem I see is the alignment issues with the "spur" section of the butt-cap or pommel. That would have to be worked out carefully to get it correct. I'm sure his grandfather had the "plan" worked out in his own way. Probably based on the tools he had on hand. Wonder if he fitted, glued, tightened it all down then clampd the brass down on the tightening nut and put a pin through from the side. Wouldn't be my approach but like you said...no hard fast rules.

[Ray Rogers]

Just goes to show there's nothing new under the sun. As always though, it's whatever works for you ....

[virginian1607]

Finally finished the knife and I'm happy with the way it turned out. It will make a nice Christmas present for my dad. I ended up silver soldering the steel sleeve to the brass butt cap and then acraglassing the central cavity of the handle to fill the voids. I filed down the butt cap and polished it and then finished the handle with some tung oil. Thanks again to everyone for their help, I don't think I would have been able to do this without it.

[Crex]

Well there you go!
Looks like it finished up nicely. Your grandfather would be proud.

(next thing to learn - how to resize your pictures before posting)