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  #1  
Old 04-24-2001, 08:54 AM
ghostdog
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Welding questions


I went out yesterday and tried to weld some chainsaw chain together. From my attempts come a couple of questions.
How often do you put flux on the metal?
I did get a little bit of stick but I have a feeling I was too cold, what is correct color?
Also I seemed to be generating an incredible amount of slag, is this normal?
I put the chain in some vermiculite and when I retrieved it, the vermiculite is sticking to it, firmly, and the whole chain seems sticky, is this a sign of too much flux?

ghostdog
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  #2  
Old 04-24-2001, 10:00 AM
Geno
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It sounds like it is still gummy.
How did you clean it before you started?
Like cable, if you don't get it clean, the goop comes out from the high heat and prevents proper fusion.It appears to be a thick scale but doesn't want to pop off like regular scale. That is probably the sticky stuff you feel on it.

Soak it in Kerosene for a couple of days and wire brush the Heck out of it.Wash it in HOT-HOT water and blow it dry quickly.This should give you a good start.

A general rule of forging is Yellow colors to weld and orange colors to forge(or move the metal)
Orange color will move the metal around but WON'T make it stick.
Flux it when it looks dry.It is better to over flux than under flux. Extra flux just squirts out(when hot enough).
The yellow color you are looking for almost looks transparent like you can see the middle of the metal glow.
Hope it helps. BE BLESSED!
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  #3  
Old 04-24-2001, 10:18 AM
john
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welding questions


ghostdog,
i will give you my theory on welding and hopefully others will add their reply also.
when welding cable or chain (i have only welded chain twice) first get it red hot then pull it out and flux it with borax soap.put it back in the heat(you need a good bed of coal below to weld and also on the sides helps) give it a little bit of air so it comes up to heat slowly, and flip the piece over from time to time.the metal will get a yellowish color almost white and will be bubbling(note: there is a difference betwen the borax bubbling and the metal itself bubbling.when the metal starts to bubble pull it out and hit it on the side a couple licks and then on the top and bottom a few times.(i think its very important to keep the metal close together.)at the point the metal starts to cool flux again and put it back in the heat. go through this process untill you get the whole piece welded up. it takes several heats to accomplish dependent on the amount of metal your using.if the metal is welding when you hit it you will see sparks shooting out.that will be the borax shooting out .i think you were not getting your piece hot enough . you probably saw the borax melting and pulled the metal out to soon.

hope this helps
oak/john
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  #4  
Old 04-25-2001, 10:12 AM
ghostdog
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Re: welding questions


Geno and Oak, thanks. I did clean the chain but probably not enough...I thot the heat would burn out any goop I did not remove. I am sure that I am too cool, alright. The yellow I got sounds too faint from the description here. I think possibly I will have to go one size larger in my orifice as I had the forge wide open. Where i did get a weld was just a tiny area. And I definetly did not notice any metal bubbling.

thanks
ghostdog
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  #5  
Old 04-25-2001, 12:58 PM
Dana Acker
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Re: Melted Butter


That's what I look for. After fluxing and going back in the fire, when the piece looks like melting, runny butter-bright yellow and liquid, it's ready to weld. Cleanliness of the piece is also very important. No grease allowed! Also, medium hammer blows--not too heavy and not too light. You can feel it when the piece becomes welded solid. There's no "give" in it any more--it's like beating on a regular piece of steel.
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  #6  
Old 04-25-2001, 07:45 PM
Ron claiborne
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welding question


john you told it perfect and yes the heat will burn out any crap in the chain or cable or any thing you want but you have to let it burn it out give it some time in the fire befor you flux keep a reducing fire- thats slow air and let the fire catch up with the burn dont blast it with a lot of air at one time that will only produce slag. Build up to welding heat let set for a little after its ready like 20 or 30 sec and then bring out and tap it will stick together and the next heat do the same over and over if you hit it to hard it will drive the molton steel away and it want weld
the reason the vermiculite is sticking is that you placed the peace in the while the flux was melting when you place the peace back in the fire all will be well it will heat back to welding and the vermiculite will flow away dont worry about it I do this all the time when im dune for the day I place the peace in the vermic-
yellow is welding color near white when you weld alot you can weld in llower colors but you in your shop with your lighting will let you know what that color is its best to weld in a dark shop or not well lite so that the lighting in the shop is the same all day you will learn the color if the lighting is a constant and as others have told to much flux is better that a little
Bowie
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  #7  
Old 04-26-2001, 10:01 AM
ghostdog
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Re: welding question


Dana and Bowie, thanks for adding to this. Might be a good thread to save? I am not getting the buttery color you mention Dana. I put the chain back in again yesterday and let it bake. I get the yellow only in the edge where there is thin metal basically by itself. Today I will enlarge the orifice in my burner by one size and see what happens. I think By enlarging the orifice I will be more able to achieve the reducing heat Bowie mentions. Thanks again.

ghostdog
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  #8  
Old 04-26-2001, 09:15 PM
Ron Claiborne
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Welding question


You are useing Gas great put a blower on it and it will be controllable
this way with a air gate you can achive a reducing fire this is a little gas rich .
To know that you have a reducing fire the blaze will be burning out of the mouth of the forge about 2to 3 inches
when you have welding heat the hole peace will be yellow and bubbleing the flux ,
Also be sure that the forge has a smaller mouth then the out side of the forge I have seen some forges that are being burned with no small opening this well not get to heat you have to have .
some resistance so the heat stays in
Go to my web site and have a look at my forge
user.icx.net/~bowie/ l
let me worn you that its hard to see but it works great and it easy to build I weld in this forge all the time but its gas not the neo-trible standard Im sure but i can weld 15lb billets out of it
bowie
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  #9  
Old 04-30-2001, 08:16 PM
ghostdog
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Re: Welding question


I enlarged the orifice in my burner from a #59 bit size to a #57 and was able to weld a piece of 3/8 cable. Was a great feeling. Although I still do not think I am quite hot enough. I see a yellow glow/halo around the metal and some of it is definetly golden but I ain't seeing buttery...maybe its just my eyes.
One thing about enlarging the orifice I have a larger hot spot now. Again thanks for the help.

ghostdog
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