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Heat Treating and Metallurgy Discussion of heat treatment and metallurgy in knife making. |
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#1
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file steel for knife question
I've come upon an un-cut Nicholson file blank, still in the annealed state. I can't decide if I'm gonna pound on it or just grind it. Either way, anybody have any thoughts on suggested HT once a knife is produced?
Thanks __________________ Dennis "..good judgement comes from experience, experience comes from poor judgement.." -Gary McMahan, a cowboy poet and good dancer. http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/p...24112090995576 |
#2
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Assume that it's hypereutectic steel and take it up to just above non-magnetic. Maybe 1450 degrees, if you can austinize with that kind of heat control, and soak at temperature for 5 minutes. Then temper at 375 degrees at least twice for two two hour cycles and test the edge. If it chips out, grind out the chips and retemper 25 degrees higher.
Doug __________________ If you're not making mistakes then you're not trying hard enough Last edited by Doug Lester; 03-02-2012 at 02:54 PM. |
#3
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I can't say if this information is still valid, but at one time they were using a suped up version of 1095 with a bit more carbon. I do not know what they use nowadays, I believe the newer files are made in Brazil out of who-knows-what. I will assume your's is some of the old, good stuff (you must live around Cullman near the old factory, I'm up in Athens, howdy neighbor!). Treat it like 1095, and expect the tempering temp to be just a bit higher to get a durable edge, 450+ degrees if my memory serves me right. I made a lot of knives out of their files back in the day, and treated right they make excellent knives.
__________________ A good friend told me one time about forging "What is there not to like, you get to break all the rules you were told as a kid, don't play with that it is sharp, don't play with fire, and don't beat on that" Wade Holloway See some of my work. |
#4
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Just to revisit this. I was doing a little lite reading before turning in last night and it seems like that I should modify my recommendation on tempering to start at 400 degrees. (Ya, I know I'm a sick puppy for reading metallurgy texts to chill out with.) The reason is that if this steel is something on the order of 1095 or higher carbon W series then it will retain more austinite due to it's carbon content and you will need to get the tempering temperature up that high to trigger the second phase of tempering to get it to convert to martensite. Also there is more carbon to move out of the martensite.
I also learned by heat treating a 9260 blade how much blade geometry can effect how hard you want a blade to be. I heat treated two blades at the same time from that steel and tempered them together at 400 degrees. One blade held up to the wire test just fine but the second was left with an endentation with rolled over edges. I assumed that I just didn't have the steel hot enough when it went into the quenchant. I did it again and made sure that it was hot enough, same results, so I requenched and tempered 25 degrees lower and ended up with a good edge. So, it seems like that there is no one correct answere to how hard you need to get a blade other than hard enough to do the job. Doug __________________ If you're not making mistakes then you're not trying hard enough |
#5
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Bring it to me Bubba. I will caress it into a fine useable instrument of cutting magic.
Robert |
#6
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Quote:
I'll make no comment on Doug's metallurgical sickness.... but I do have one question about his observations - What aspect of geometry do you think was affecting it? It would seem thickness but could there be other things? Which blade of what geometry did the rolling? Thanks Gentlemen for the direction. I can indeed HT with the precision needed. I do live near Cullman and it is likely that's where this came from. Probably is a good bet on suped up 1095. I'll treat it as such and see what happens. __________________ Dennis "..good judgement comes from experience, experience comes from poor judgement.." -Gary McMahan, a cowboy poet and good dancer. http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/p...24112090995576 |
#7
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Is their a heat treat facility that'll take file knives? I've got around 15 blades done, it just got to dry to start my forge. Will TexasKnife in Houston take file knives?
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#8
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The one that had the edge that rolled was a fairly thin flat primary bevel, maybe a little less than the thickness of a dime, and then had a flat secondary bevel cut into it which evidently didn't leave enough strength behind the edge. The one that didn't roll may have been left a bit thicker on the primary bevel and then had a convex secondary bevel cut in on a slack belt which put more strength behind the edge. At least that seems to me what it was without being able to take HRc reading or do microscopic examinations of the crystalline structure.
Doug __________________ If you're not making mistakes then you're not trying hard enough |
Tags |
art, blade, edge, files, forge, full tang, heat treat, knife, knives, steel, tang |
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