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Historical Inspiration This forum is dedicated to the discussion of historical knife design and its influence on modern custom knife work.

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  #1  
Old 05-16-2004, 04:28 PM
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Scagel fighter clone

Here is a cool pic of a scagel fighter and one by a contemporary of his.


Ebay item


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Old 05-16-2004, 06:08 PM
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Roc, nice! This rang a bell with me so I looked through my image files and found the following:


I remember asking Dr. Jim Lucie about R. Van Adrstin and a possible association with Scagel. He said Scagel influenced a lot of people but "Nobody influenced Bill." - a reference to Scagel's fierce independance. Were it not for the (trumped-up) 'Scagel connection' the eBay seller is emphasizing, I'm not sure that knife would command much of a price at all.

The eBay listing includes a reference to Marbles Knife Co. and indeed the Marbles knifemaking concern got going during the time Scagel was active and, in fact.........
........Scagel copied a Marbles design at least once - this 'safety folder' with original sheath! BT


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Old 05-16-2004, 08:14 PM
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Thanks buddy. That folder is fantastic. Looks better than the Marbles safety, IMO. Is that a shot shell puller on top?


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Old 05-16-2004, 11:25 PM
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Yeah, that's what Dr. Lucie told me it was - a shot shell puller. That folder is a pretty special knife from his fantastic collection.

Speaking of the good doctor, he'd be off on a rant if he knew how this eBay seller is using a totally unsubstantiated connection with Scagel to pump up the price on the R. Van Adrstin fighter. He's a gentleman of the old school and honesty is everything to him! I agree and I both respect and admire him for that!

I noticed there are no bids yet with 7 days to go on a 10 day listing and no reserve, just a starting bid set by the seller at $2,250. I'm no judge of this knife's relative value (relative in proportion to the bigger picture, like 'wholesale' or what a business oriented dealer would pay - not value defined as "what a buyer will pay") - but the seller only hypes the fantasied Scagel connection and mentions nothing about the maker or the knife that suggests real value. Fooey!

To save folks the trouble of looking it up on eBay, here's the book page the seller cites in order to emphasize the alleged Scagel connection:


Roc, I have no idea if anybody besides me and you are interested in this - but I did want to say that I think you have a knack for finding interesting stuff out there in the world to bring onto CKD Forums for sharing and discussion. Thanks!


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Old 05-16-2004, 11:56 PM
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Haha, you would not believe I was thinking while at the top of your post seems like you and I seem to end up posting the most on the subject.
Ebay hype aside, Adrstin has to have the distinction of being the first known Scagel fan/reproductionist. I would think that his work would be worth a pretty penny if only judged in that regard. his attention to making an exact copy shows the amount of respect he had for Ol' Bill. I would like to know more of the story.
Judging from the number of scagel repro bladesmiths today and past, I don't think we are alone.

Thanks for all the great pics!


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Old 07-03-2004, 01:05 PM
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So, I've been wondering for about a year, what makes a knife a Scagel? I mean, in his style? What are the distinguishing characteristics?

Steve


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Old 07-03-2004, 03:28 PM
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I wish this was my knife. It sold on Ebay not to long ago for a good price. I was watching it, but spaced the close of the auction. I have been sick about it ever since...lol. It is an early Ron Welling reproduction and for me it has a very pleasing "Scagel" look to it. Altho not Scagels only style, it is the best known model. I hope some more elloquent definitions of what makes a Scagel a Scagel come along, a basic discription would be a forged deep belly all purpose skinner, brass guard, stacked leather handle with a stag crown butt.

Welling/Scagel


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Old 07-03-2004, 08:11 PM
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I can see the shot puller on the top ok, but what's the paddle looking blade pivioting from the bottom?


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Old 07-04-2004, 12:04 PM
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The blade is to long for the handle. the paddle folds out and covers the tip of the blade when the knife is closed. It folds into the handle when the knife is open.


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Old 07-04-2004, 01:41 PM
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Good Grief!


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Old 07-05-2004, 12:00 AM
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Okay, the Welling knife looks like what I'd started to associate with the Scagel name - skinner, stacked handle. If it's the most common, that would explain why I got the idea that that was sort of what constituted a Scagel. But to my eye, the fighter that started this thread has none of those attributes. Is it just that he did lots of different knives, and of course a fighter won't look like a skinner?

Thanks,

Steve


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Old 07-06-2004, 04:43 PM
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Here is a pic of a Marbles Safety knife to show what they look like folded.


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