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The Newbies Arena Are you new to knife making? Here is all the help you will need.

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  #1  
Old 10-18-2016, 11:09 AM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
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440c vs 154cm

hey guys so I got a question 440c VS 154CM (NOT CPM154CM) basicly I have done the research and read about what its supposed to do. the only stainless I have used is 90% 440c and a lil bit of CPMS35VN so I have no real world experience with 154CM so that's what I am looking toward you guys for. for the group of you guys that have used 154CM I would just like to know the real world characteristics and even better compared to 440c I trust all of you guys for realworld experience a lot more than whats on paper ya know what I mean? thanks guys
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Old 10-18-2016, 01:12 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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As far as I can remember they seemed pretty similar to me. The 154CM is supposed to polish very well (if you like that sort of thing). Look at the spec sheets for both, see what the strengths and weaknesses can be expected...


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Old 10-18-2016, 01:29 PM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
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ok one other ??? the data sheet says....
" Quench: Oil or positive pressure (4 bar minimum) to below 125?F (50?C), or salt quench to about 1000?F (540?C), then air cool to below 125?F (50?C). Salt bath treatment, if practical, will ensure the maximum attainable toughness for a given hardening treatment. "
so I could either quench in oil all the way through by it self OR positive pressure (4 bar min) all the way through by it self right NOT a combination of both like you would do with cpms35vn right? am I also right to assume if a 2 bar min (like cpms35vn) is 30 psi so 4 bar wouyld be 60 psi?
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Old 10-18-2016, 02:18 PM
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You are correct on all counts ...


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Old 10-18-2016, 02:27 PM
jimmontg jimmontg is offline
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Dave it's a simple HT. you can quench it in a tube blowing air on it or plate quench it. Cryo after first quench or after first temper. Temper twice according to the charts. Forget salt baths, you are not equipped for that. I don't think many knife-makers are equipped as that is more an industrial process. I saw the HT guys at Rockwell doing it and they wore protective clothing and were very careful.

CM 154 can get harder and with cryo has better toughness than 440C. It isn't much different than 440C except less chrome and much much more molybdenum. Which is where the toughness comes from, it is the same as ATS34 steel from Japan. It holds an edge well and can be left a little harder than 440C.
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Old 10-18-2016, 03:13 PM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
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alright thanks guys yeh I figured oil or positive pressure maybe ill do one of each and compare....I un expectedly sold 2 small knives I made a while back last night no sheaths nothing the guy took them as is....so steel is something I am getting low on and I have been wanting to try either 154cm or the CPM 154 cm the CPM version is a lot more $$ the 154cm isn't that much more in cost to 440c so figured I would try that....yeh jim your right salt bath is something I am not even thinking about now (or in the near future)
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Old 10-20-2016, 08:33 AM
jimmontg jimmontg is offline
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Dave, I think you'll find that 154CM will pass the brass rod test at a hardness the 440C wouldn't. The Moly in it not only adds toughness, but also makes moly carbides as well. There was a time when it was considered one of the best knife steels and if properly HT it will surpass 440C by a few notches. Add your cryo to it and at RC60-59 it will be quite abrasion resistant. It's what I use for stainless and send to TKS for HT. They are some of the best knives I've made. And like you said it doesn't cost much more than 440C, which there is nothing wrong with if HT right. 440C kind of got a bad name because many cheap manufacturers didn't HT it right or lied and used 420 instead. Here is another link to Even Heat Oven's methods of HT 154CM.
http://www.evenheat-kiln.com/?pg=tec...ormation&hti=4
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154cm, 440c, back, bee, blade, cpm, cryo, edge, forge, japan, knife, knives, made, makers, polish, salt, sheaths, simple, small, stainless, steel, temper, toughness


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