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The Newbies Arena Are you new to knife making? Here is all the help you will need.

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  #1  
Old 08-10-2016, 07:54 AM
WNC Goater WNC Goater is offline
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Blade finishes...

I've acid etched damascus with the ferric chloride and I've read all manner of things from vinegar to mustard finishes. So considering 0-1 or high carbon steel... I believe you etch with ferric chloride to bring out the hamon but just for rust prevention, does it help? What about basic cold gun blueing? Will that stay on and help prevent rust? I once built one of those Kentucky Rifle kits and the barrel had to be blued. I just got that stuff from the big box store and it seemed to work pretty well as I don't remember any issues with it.

I know there are other things like gun cote or ceracote etc. But these to simple and "easy" applications, the blueing and/or ferric chloride, does it help with corrosion resistence?


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  #2  
Old 08-10-2016, 08:26 AM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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Any of those things will help with corrosion resistance for a while but none are necessary, simple maintenance works just as well or better. A blade with an applied finish may look good at first but become pretty ugly very quickly with use. Of all the applied finishes I like simple etching the best for rust resistance and appearance.

I have a 7" O1 blade laying on my front porch right now. It had a Moly-Kote finish 17 years ago but that's long gone now. Now the blade is completely covered with red rust and this is simply the result of exposure, the knife was not used so the finish was not worn off. Bottom line there is, even coated you still have to do simple maintenance (dry the ####ed blade off after use!) to avoid rust. Most Randall knives are O1 and you don't see paint on them. Use bluing or paint when you need to darken a tactical blade, other than that it offers little advantage.

BTW, that rusty knife on my porch is still just as solid and usable as the day I made it although it would need to be re-sharpened ...


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  #3  
Old 08-10-2016, 09:25 AM
jimmontg jimmontg is offline
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Smile I like a nice blued finish, but some alloys don't take a nice blue.

I tend to blue all my carbon steel knives that take a nice blue and a bunch of my tools including a small 4lb anvil, it provides some measure of rust resistance, but will wear off and rust if used or not oiled and taken care of. I've etched stainless by leaving it in a salt-vinegar brine for a few days, looks like a splotchy stone wash finish. Ray is right though, you just have to take care of them.

If I take O1 to a mirror polish I always blue it. When you take it outside it's hard to tell what color it is because it is so reflective. O1 is a little harder to blue evenly and takes about three blues. The last application is done with fine 000 steel wool and rubbed vigorously into the metal and it helps to warm the metal to where it feels hot in your hand. Works for me and helps quite bit to get an even finish, then wax with a non abrasive wax and oil. I treat my sheaths with Birchwood Casey gun stock wax on the inside and spray Rem teflon oil in there as well. This will darken the outside by the way a bit, but my knives never rust in the sheaths as long as they don't get wet and left in there. I always print out instructions on proper care of a non-stainless knife and waterproof sheath or not I tell them to not store the knife or axe in the sheath long-term.
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Old 08-10-2016, 11:27 AM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
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Wnc goater...I know your looking for a simple finish...yeh I have been playing with cera coat (it is not simple blades needs to be soaked in acetone, oven to "gas out" then sprayed then back in oven) but in my searching for an acceptable paint finish dura cote makes a paint that does not need to be baked and is sprayed right from a spray paint can so it is the simplest I could find as far as a paint anyway. the only down side is price if I remember right I think it is 40$ a can...something you might want to look into I read ALOT of reviews from knife makers they were all positive results.

Jimmontg....reading your post I am curious do you have any pics of the stainless you etched...I was under the impression that stainless would not take a etch. if vinegar would etch it wouldn't acid (ferric, phosphoric, muriatic) just curious to see how it came out how far did you grind it before etch?
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Old 08-10-2016, 12:06 PM
WNC Goater WNC Goater is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmontg View Post
I tend to blue all my carbon steel knives that take a nice blue and a bunch of my tools including a small 4lb anvil, it provides some measure of rust resistance, but will wear off and rust if used or not oiled and taken care of. I've etched stainless by leaving it in a salt-vinegar brine for a few days, looks like a splotchy stone wash finish. Ray is right though, you just have to take care of them.

If I take O1 to a mirror polish I always blue it. When you take it outside it's hard to tell what color it is because it is so reflective. O1 is a little harder to blue evenly and takes about three blues. The last application is done with fine 000 steel wool and rubbed vigorously into the metal and it helps to warm the metal to where it feels hot in your hand. Works for me and helps quite bit to get an even finish, then wax with a non abrasive wax and oil. I treat my sheaths with Birchwood Casey gun stock wax on the inside and spray Rem teflon oil in there as well. This will darken the outside by the way a bit, but my knives never rust in the sheaths as long as they don't get wet and left in there. I always print out instructions on proper care of a non-stainless knife and waterproof sheath or not I tell them to not store the knife or axe in the sheath long-term.
Yeah I have a printed sheet I give with my knives with care instructions which include not storing in the sheath, oiling, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dtec1 View Post
Wnc goater...I know your looking for a simple finish...yeh I have been playing with cera coat (it is not simple blades needs to be soaked in acetone, oven to "gas out" then sprayed then back in oven) but in my searching for an acceptable paint finish dura cote makes a paint that does not need to be baked and is sprayed right from a spray paint can so it is the simplest I could find as far as a paint anyway. the only down side is price if I remember right I think it is 40$ a can...something you might want to look into I read ALOT of reviews from knife makers they were all positive results.

Jimmontg....reading your post I am curious do you have any pics of the stainless you etched...I was under the impression that stainless would not take a etch. if vinegar would etch it wouldn't acid (ferric, phosphoric, muriatic) just curious to see how it came out how far did you grind it before etch?
Actually I'm NOT looking for a finish. I prefer the steel as-is and expect to take care of it just like any other valuable tool. I was more curious and thought about applying it to one of MY knives to test and see, and then perhaps offer it in the future...or not. Just wondering ease vs. durability/practicality.


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Old 08-10-2016, 12:10 PM
WNC Goater WNC Goater is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Rogers View Post
Any of those things will help with corrosion resistance for a while but none are necessary, simple maintenance works just as well or better. A blade with an applied finish may look good at first but become pretty ugly very quickly with use. Of all the applied finishes I like simple etching the best for rust resistance and appearance.

I have a 7" O1 blade laying on my front porch right now. It had a Moly-Kote finish 17 years ago but that's long gone now. Now the blade is completely covered with red rust and this is simply the result of exposure, the knife was not used so the finish was not worn off. Bottom line there is, even coated you still have to do simple maintenance (dry the ####ed blade off after use!) to avoid rust. Most Randall knives are O1 and you don't see paint on them. Use bluing or paint when you need to darken a tactical blade, other than that it offers little advantage.

BTW, that rusty knife on my porch is still just as solid and usable as the day I made it although it would need to be re-sharpened ...
You should take better care of your tools. YOU of all people!


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  #7  
Old 08-10-2016, 12:26 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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QUOTE: You should take better care of your tools. YOU of all people!

You know how I'm always harping "test, test, test"...well, that's what I made that knife for. I made it just like any other knife I would make but used a simple Micarta handle, and baked on finish. I threw it a few times for fun, and attempted to hammer it through a rr spike (made it about half way before the edge chipped out) to test durability but the real test was that baked finish. After a year or so the rust formed right over the finish. Only about a square inch of finish left now on the underside where it is a bit more protected. The rust is thin, the blade could be reconditioned but I think it proves that coated or not you still have to maintain your blades. If you aren't willing to maintain the blade then stainless is your best (though not perfect) option ...


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Old 08-11-2016, 05:32 AM
jimmontg jimmontg is offline
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This is a pic of that un-heat treated knife I bought with the 1/2" hole I drilled in it and I guarantee I do not own a $240 carbide 1/2" drill bit. I have turned it into a thrower I believe it is Ausmus steel. I have some carbide drill bits down around #41@.096 and #30@.128 and #12@.189 and 6.5mm@.255. The .255 was $20+ and I chipped it and it took me 4 hours to resharpen it by hand with diamond sharpener. I just put the steel in a pan of unpasteurized apple vinegar and potassium chloride salt brine for about four days. Potassium chloride salt is also known as No Salt at the grocery store and is next to the regular sodium version. I would guess regular salt would work as well, but since I lost my right kidney I'm supposed to lay off the stuff. Read your ingredients and when they say lower sodium, but still great taste you will see a big increase in potassium chloride, just FYI.

By the way for anyone out there with a rusty tool or knife or fence post, there is a product called Jasco Metal Prep or Ospho, two different products, but do the same thing. First lightly wire brush your rusty tools and the brush or spray bottle some Metal prep onto the parts. It will turn the iron oxide into iron phosphate, ie. black iron. Also because it contains phosphoric acid it etches the metal, including aluminum so that paint sticks to it. A rusty knife will turn black and look like scale. Remember it must be kept above 75 degrees for it to work. I've used it on rusty bolts and even an old boat trailer. If given time to work it's magic it will form a permanent bond for paint and other finishes to stick to, including aluminum. Rusty old fence posts covered with rust are still looking good 10 years later. Bolts on my PU bed are black instead of rusty. I ought to get paid by some of these people.

Last edited by jimmontg; 08-11-2016 at 06:05 AM.
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acid, anvil, blade, carbon, cold, damascus, easy, etched, etching, gun, hamon, knife, knives, made, man, paint, polish, post, randall, sheaths, simple, steel, stone, tactical


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