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The Newbies Arena Are you new to knife making? Here is all the help you will need.

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  #1  
Old 06-20-2015, 02:50 PM
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Gys Gys is offline
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First attempt

First attempt, maybe a new hobby in the making.

TECH SPECS
ATS34 steel 5mm
handle in oak and colored with several paints, finished with beewax.

Work in progress and still a bit rough around the edges (never had steel in my hands before, still learning the material...). Small knife (watch the basil ), not 100% sharpened yet (a bit difficult to sharpen, trying a 250/1000 wetstone, but still searching for the right moves



Last edited by Gys; 06-22-2015 at 05:23 PM. Reason: Forgot thumbnail
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  #2  
Old 06-20-2015, 08:08 PM
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Interesting. Why ATS-34, how did you get it heat treated? How is the handle attached?


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  #3  
Old 06-22-2015, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Rogers View Post
Interesting. Why ATS-34, how did you get it heat treated? How is the handle attached?
Hello,
tnx for the reply. It's a small knife, as a first practice, but not created for fine work. I wanted it to be firm and sturdy so I chose ATS 34 - 5mm, which has, according to my information, a RC hardness of 60. According to some other information it has good wear resistance. Still reading about steel types, it seemed a good choice for a first time .

It has been heat treated in a homemade charcoal/large heat gun oven. Not simple to get it on temperature (and apparently I melted the bottom alu plate , so work in progress here), but it seemed to work (again, according to my information about color while and sound after heat treating). Tempered in simple oven for 2 hours. Not 100% sure if it's heat treated well as I need to test it yet.

The handle is attached with two part epoxy. I made a hole in the tang so the epoxy acts as a rivet (well, that's the general idea, ask me again in a few weeks .



To be honest, I need to test it, drop it, scratch it, torture it, but... I'm still enjoying the look for now . Maybe after my second attempt. Knowledge in progress

grtz
g
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  #4  
Old 06-22-2015, 01:18 PM
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A great start , good for you !


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  #5  
Old 06-22-2015, 06:42 PM
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The workmanship is good for a first effort. The reason I picked on the ATS-34 wasn't to question the steel as ATS-34 does make fine knives and, yes, it will attain Rc 60 but only if properly heat treated. And that's the rub....ATS-34 is a stainless steel and stainless steels cannot be properly heat treated in a coal forge or even a propane forge for that matter. Oh, maybe some expert using a tricked out gas forge with thermocouples and a PID controller could do it right but for the rest of us proper heat treat on stainless isn't going to happen without an electric furnace.

I don't doubt that you can test the blade and be pleased that it does, in fact, cut stuff but most any piece of short, thick, steel like that with an edge on it will be able to cut and take a good bit of abuse too just because of its geometry with no heat treatment at all. But, that's nothing compared to what it could do if treated properly.

A bar of simple 1084 is a lot less expensive than ATS-34 and it can be heat treated in a coal forge quite well if you learn the technique. That's what I would suggest for your next blade.

That handle might hold up on such a small knife but, generally, epoxy alone isn't a good idea for a knife handle over the long haul. A couple of rivets, bolts, or pins can add a lot of strength and some decoration at the same time ...

P.S.

I just noticed you are in Belgium which means you may not have easy access to 1084. That's OK. Look for any simple carbon steel with around .8 to .9 % of carbon and little to no other alloying elements (certainly no chromium). Any such steel can be treated successfully in a coal forge ....


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Last edited by Ray Rogers; 06-22-2015 at 06:52 PM.
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  #6  
Old 06-23-2015, 06:33 AM
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What Ray said......


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  #7  
Old 06-23-2015, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Rogers View Post
The workmanship is good for a first effort. The reason I picked on the ATS-34 wasn't to question the steel as ATS-34 does make fine knives and, yes, it will attain Rc 60 but only if properly heat treated. And that's the rub........
Hi Ray, tnx for the feedback, my only sources till now were google, youtube and some common sense, so I'm happy that someone's talking back these days .

I understand the ATS-34 feedback. I'm working on a 2nd knife, also in ATS34 (already had it) and will heat treat this in a proper oven (I have access to a heat treat oven at a tech school where my brother in law is a teacher). 3th attempt will be in other metal.

I have access to the following types of steel:
  • CPM 154
  • CPM S 35
  • 440 C
  • ATS 34
  • B?hler M390 PM Microclean
  • B?hler N690
  • D2
  • 154 CM (not cPm)

About the epoxy connection, I was looking for a "hidden" pin/rivet or bolt but I'm still reading about it (also this thread) and keeping your comment there in mind ("being he appears to be a Newbie, getting everything just right isn't likely."
I'm not 100% fond of the visible pins, but hey, les go?ts et les couleurs, as people say on the other side of my country.

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What Ray said......
Hi Crex, tnx for the confirmation
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  #8  
Old 06-23-2015, 09:28 AM
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All of those steels you listed are stainless and would need to be processed in an electric furnace. I'm assuming that you will read the data sheet for any of those steels you use and follow the instructions you find there.

As for hidden pins, there is a reason why you don't see full tang knives made that way - they usually don't hold up. But, if you want that type of look, consider doing a stub tang handle. Stub tangs can be done with a single pin or simply with epoxy if you use a good grade of epoxy. Personally, I still don't recommend a handle without a pin but if I were going to do one it would definitely be a stub tang glued into a cavity hollowed into the handle. Put some holes or notches on the tang, make the interior of the hollow in the handle roughed up so the glue can hold and it should be reasonably secure even for hard work ...


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  #9  
Old 06-23-2015, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Rogers View Post
All of those steels you listed are stainless....
Hi Ray,

tnx for your feedback once again. I just realize I gave you all stainless steel types.

I also have access to:
15N20, L6, O2, B?hlere K390PM, A2 and O2. These should all be carbon steel. But you're right, still reading (and trying to understand) all tech specs.

Next one will be with pins or rivets any way, as part of the learning process.

greetz
g
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  #10  
Old 06-23-2015, 11:51 AM
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Those are carbon steels but most have significant alloying elements which make them better suited to the electric furnace than the coal forge. The 15N20 and L6 would be the best for the coal forge from the list you have, I think. You listed O2 twice which could just be a typing mistake so if you meant O1 for one of those you would find that to be an excellent blade steel especially if treated in your furnace but with passable results possible in the coal forge ...


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  #11  
Old 06-23-2015, 12:29 PM
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Cool looking blade concept.
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  #12  
Old 06-23-2015, 04:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Rogers View Post
Those are carbon steels but most have significant alloying elements whi ...
Hi Ray,

tnx for the feedback and tips. The O2 was indeed a typo, but no O1, I'll check in another shop. L6 will be the choice I think. Can be hardened at 840--870 C? (1544 - 1598 F?) as far as I can read. To be honest, I was not sure if I could make a good knife out of this steel as it's sold here to be combined with O2 to create damascus (again, www-knowledge, but I have to start somewhere

Tnx for sharing your knowledge and experience, btw! Much appreciated!

greetz
g

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Originally Posted by toolmkr20 View Post
Cool looking blade concept.
Hi Toolmkr20,
tnx for the feedback, also much appreciated!
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  #13  
Old 06-23-2015, 05:28 PM
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L6 will be an excellent choice , one of my faves


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  #14  
Old 06-23-2015, 07:32 PM
jmccustomknives jmccustomknives is offline
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I second BCRob on the L-6. It is very forgiving and makes an excellent big knife. The 15n20 is just as tough but a step under in edge holding.
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  #15  
Old 06-24-2015, 05:46 AM
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Have to agree with all that's been said above.
The main reason L6 and 15n20 are usually associated with pattern-welded steel (Damascus if you must) is three fold:
1 - their slight nickel content helps them to weld up easily and nicely with most other high carbon steels
2 - being high carb knife worthy steels on their own, they don't degrade the actual functional qualities sought in a serious working blade
3 - they add a subtle but attractive contrast with the other steels they aare welded to when etched properly

For what it's worth, my favorite of those you listed is O1. Serious good blade steel when thermal cycled properly. L-6 & 15n20 are also found in my stash on any given day. Won't see any stainless as they're not designed for smithing. I quit stock removal better than 20 years ago because I enjoy manipulating hot steel with a hammer more than sweeping up ground steel.


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Last edited by Crex; 06-24-2015 at 05:49 AM.
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